ToT Fight!!!

alissafalco

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
MansionGoer13z said:
Looks like its time to replace the pepper spray with tazers. Pepper spray only provokes, and does not resolve the situations where the person is drunk or mentally ill.
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seriously!! It didn't look like that pepper spray did much of anything at all. He went down for a minute and then came back with a vengence.
 
unkadug

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I agree that the woman was quite irritating.

Kind of like how Entertainment Tonight seems to think that the only song that Whitney Houston ever sang was "I Will Always Love You". Watch... when they say ANYTHING at all about her - that song is playing in the background. :rolleyes:
 
Kobe!!

Kobe!!

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Haha Jimmy Fallon just did a joke about this saying that Disney ended up selling the video of it at the end of the ride for only $29.99. hahaha
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Leave it to Al Lutz! Mr. Lutz now has a fantastic play-by-play summary of the entire event, with information from seemingly all the parties involved (well, except from maybe the drunk guy) and background info on what else was happening in the park at that time.

This information, which is quite fascinating to read for those of us on the West Coast who first saw this video on Sunday afternoon about a day before it went "viral" and hit the East Coast boards like this one, is contained in the Miceage Wednesday Round-Up thing they do every Wednesday.

But here's the best summary paragraph from Mr. Lutz, and made me laugh out loud. :ROFLOL:

While the video can be painful to watch as it seems like an eternity until help arrives, the help is delayed primarily because the Cast Members involved spent the first two minutes of the video dealing with a very disturbed individual before realizing this was something they would need a lot of help with. Of course the Monday morning quarterbacks can comfortably say they would have deflected the punches and called for backup simultaneously, or done a dozen things differently and far more effectively, but in defense of the CM’s the situation was volatile and rapidly changing over just two or three minutes.
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The rest of the explanation and background information is found at Miceage here under "Ask Al"... http://miceage.micechat.com/mc/mc022212a.htm
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
sublimesting said:
Yes, I stand corrected. Laws apparently vary state by state.
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Sorry. I misunderstood. That hadn't actually occurred to me. I have worked Loss Prevention before for both Indiana and Kentucky and they are both the same. I don't know why I was thinking it was like a federal thing. :)
 
xdan0920

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
TP2000 said:
Leave it to Al Lutz! Mr. Lutz now has a fantastic play-by-play summary of the entire event, with information from seemingly all the parties involved (well, except from maybe the drunk guy) and background info on what else was happening in the park at that time.

This information, which is quite fascinating to read for those of us on the West Coast who first saw this video on Sunday afternoon about a day before it went "viral" and hit the East Coast boards like this one, is contained in the Miceage Wednesday Round-Up thing they do every Wednesday.

But here's the best summary paragraph from Mr. Lutz, and made me laugh out loud. :ROFLOL:



The rest of the explanation and background information is found at Miceage here under "Ask Al"... http://miceage.micechat.com/mc/mc022212a.htm
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This touches on something I meant to post earlier.

There is a world of difference between 4 minutes watching a video on your computer/smartphone/ipad, and 4 minutes in the real world. 4 minutes in the real world goes FAST. Especially when something like this is happening. I mean, really really fast. Meanwhile, watching a video from afar, 4 minutes can feel like forever. If we were talking about 8-10 minutes, instead of 4-5, then the huge criticism of Disney would be justified.
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
If you follow this type of thinking.. that can very much happen and people will have to live with haunting that they didn't do anything because they were worried about losing their job??

I get that people are worried about their safety or their ability to help - but being worried about losing your JOB should be the last thing on your mind when someone is in peril. That is why you need to read the WWII story about the Truxton and Pollux. It seems modern society things the authorities are always going to be there to help you - they can't always be there and there will be times when they won't.



It's a strawman to take it to the point of beating the guy up and doing things for 'good measure'. Employees should be trained in what to do in common situations and given guidance on what takes priority. Saving your JOB doesn't take priority over assisting someone in need.

The CMs don't need to get physical with the guy - but to have a position where your job is to keep the crowd back and no one should get involved when the guy is getting the crap beat out of him.. or fear losing your job? That's just sad.

What if the guy started strangling the security guy? Should everyone sit back and watch for fear of losing their job?

If the world followed policy like this to the letter - it would be a sad sad world where no one helps anyone else - they just pick up their cell phone and wait for someone else to assist. Some day people will be in an environment where there is no one else. Or they are on the other side.

Taking things into your own hands isn't just for macho people will disrepect for rules or authority - sometimes it's required because there is no other alternative.
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Forget the stroke issue. That is taking it a bit too far but think about it like this... Disney CMs subdue the man and he is injured, in ANY way. Broken arm, broken ribs, heck, even a sprained knee. He then sues Disney, the CMs that grabbed him, and anyone else that he can throw into the lawsuit. It HAS happened before at other places. I'm sure many of you have heard of burglars breaking into homes, getting hurt, then suing the homeowner for not providing a safe environment. And no, not all of those cases get tossed out. My wife is a nurse at the local hospital and the security guards there are taught very specific techniques to subdue out of control people. You can no longer "arm bar" someone and take them to the floor. THAT is the legal age we live in now where a criminal or rowdy individual has more rights than the common "good samaritan". And THAT is why Disney will not allow their CMs to intervene.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
G00fyDad said:
THAT is the legal age we live in now where a criminal or rowdy individual has more rights than the common "good samaritan". And THAT is why Disney will not allow their CMs to intervene.
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A good example of why this society on it's way to implosion... maybe at some point the population will stand up to such crap before we all go over the edge.

People should be forced to live in an area where the nearest police are hours away.. and learn that the world is not a sterile place where things like accidents actually happen, people are responsible for themselves, and you help those in need. Because simply getting on the phone and calling someone ain't gonna help.
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
A good example of why this society on it's way to implosion... maybe at some point the population will stand up to such crap before we all go over the edge.

People should be forced to live in an area where the nearest police are hours away.. and learn that the world is not a sterile place where things like accidents actually happen, people are responsible for themselves, and you help those in need. Because simply getting on the phone and calling someone ain't gonna help.
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I agree with you. It's not right. But it is what it is and it is going to take a lot to change the way things are, if it even changes at all.
 
C

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
This is a terrible situation for all those involved, and scenarios like this are becoming increasingly common, especially in places like DCA and Epcot, which sell tons of alcohol.

The bigger issue (as Al Lutz mentioned in his column today) seems to be that most CMs are really not trained well on how to handle hostile guests. Aside from calling security, what else can you do? And even the initial lone security guard in this case didn't seem exactly clear on how to handle the situation.
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
Thunder Kz said:
This thread is great! I bet a Universal cast member would've done something.
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Not likely. And for the same reason the Disney CMs did not get involved. It always amazes me to see a person get all up in arms and upset because they were told by their employer not to intervene in an altercation and after they do they get fired or written up.
 
C

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
G00fyDad said:
Not likely. And for the same reason the Disney CMs did not get involved. It always amazes me to see a person get all up in arms and upset because they were told by their employer not to intervene in an altercation and after they do they get fired or written up.
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I get why companies don't want employees to intervene. But if even security can't intervene, who can? I mean, what is the point of security guards then? Even if Orange County can be there in 2 minutes (coming from elsewhere on property), that can be an eternity when you're a situation like this.

As said earlier, I guess they should have called for more assistance sooner, and probably started clearing the area of guests sooner.
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
COProgressFan said:
I get why companies don't want employees to intervene. But if even security can't intervene, who can? I mean, what is the point of security guards then? Even if Orange County can be there in 2 minutes (coming from elsewhere on property), that can be an eternity when you're a situation like this.

As said earlier, I guess they should have called for more assistance sooner, and probably started clearing the area of guests sooner.
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You're right. It could have been handled better and the man maybe could have been de-escalated before it got as far as it did. I totally agree that Disney security dropped the ball and why OC deputies were not there on that guy in record time I have no idea. The whole situatiojn should never have gotten as far as it did.
 
SyracuseOrange

SyracuseOrange

Well-Known Member
COProgressFan said:
I get why companies don't want employees to intervene. But if even security can't intervene, who can? I mean, what is the point of security guards then? Even if Orange County can be there in 2 minutes (coming from elsewhere on property), that can be an eternity when you're a situation like this.

As said earlier, I guess they should have called for more assistance sooner, and probably started clearing the area of guests sooner.
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It's (mostly) for show. Creates the illusion that someone will stop you from doing something bad. I used to work for a big-box retailer with a flavor for the color red *cough* and their "security" at the front of the store had almost no flexibility. They, just like Disney, would rather see someone make a big fuss than get involved and potentially hurt someone, or cause an even more dramatic scene.

Of course, there are people (probably at Disney too) higher up who have more authority, but most of the security team that is visible to the guest probably can't do TOO much in a situation like this.
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
xdan0920 said:
This touches on something I meant to post earlier.

There is a world of difference between 4 minutes watching a video on your computer/smartphone/ipad, and 4 minutes in the real world. 4 minutes in the real world goes FAST. Especially when something like this is happening. I mean, really really fast. Meanwhile, watching a video from afar, 4 minutes can feel like forever. If we were talking about 8-10 minutes, instead of 4-5, then the huge criticism of Disney would be justified.
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Really, I think the headline should be that the first security CM on the scene misjudged the situation and engaged the drunk guy before calling for backup. If the situation is bad enough that you have to do more than just talk to the guy, you should probably call for backup before you get started. Also agree with the guy who said that pepper spray can sometimes just make people angry. Look at the situation at about 1:30-- the drunk guy is standing there thinking things over, the security CM sprays him, and he starts swinging almost immediately. Not that the security CM should be made into a scapegoat... it was just heat of the moment type stuff. I bet the message from TDA to the security CM's ends up being "Call for backup sooner!" A 60 second response once he finally calls for help is pretty good.
 

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