DVC - Free Valet Parking Ends

[Tiggerish]

Originally Posted by DVC Mike

I see no evidence that DVC did anything illegal.

The post below describes what I was referring to. Not so much that DVC is actually doing anything illegal, but hoping that members will fall in line with the "I sure don't want my dues to go up just to get valet parking", when in fact the parking cannot affect the dues. Check back to Dave's post #22 where he references the Florida statute that covers this.

Originally Posted by Phonedave

Re-read your contract. Valet parking cannot be included in your dues.

One of these sales incentives, that is paid for out of profits are the perks. Others are the free ice cream, the model rooms, the van service, etc. None of our dues go to support those items.

Perks are a sales incentive. DVC pays for them out of it's profits because they are good advertising. However, when the cost of the perk no longer justifies the advertising benefit, then DVC will drop it.

The only thing "wrong" that DVC did is say they dropped it so dues would not go up. The correct statement is "we dropped it because the hit to our profits was not worth the advertsising value it provided". However, based on the confusion that has been going around, I can see why they made the statement the way they did.

-dave

I have no problem with perks being dropped; it's understood that they can be changed or discontinued at any time.

Just be honest and say, "we don't want to pay for this anymore, it's not worth it", instead of treating the members like sheep. That's the part that doesn't sit well with me.

I never use the valet parking myself, except when the guards remind us that we are not allowed to use the self-park at Boardwalk if we are not staying there. Now that they've eliminated the free valet parking perk for members, I trust that they will eliminate that restriction for DVC members.

[tjkraz]

Originally Posted by Phonedave

NO part of your dues should go to anything except upkeep of the property you own. That is Florida law. Things such as advertising, the sales office, and the perks (which are a sales incentive) are either negotiated between the various departments (i.e. budget transfers) or paid for out of the DVC profits (which come from sales)

Paragraph three of the Receipt for Member Benefits Guide which everyone got and everyone signed says, in part

"No cost(s) of operation, maintenance or repair of any properties or services available as part of or in conjunction with these special programs is passed on to a Purchaser as part of the Purchaser's assessment for common expenses of the condominium"

I do not agree with your interpretation.

The Member Benefits Guide is comprised of the following sections:

1. Disney Vacation Club Golf Program ($50 annual membership program)
2. Disney Vacation Club World of Attractions Program (minor discounts at waterparks and DisneyQuest)
3. Special Program Option (things like recreation discounts, boating, child care centers)
4. Disney Collection Program (ability to use points at non-DVC resorts)
5. Disney Vacation Club Travel Program (Adventures by Disney and Concierge Collection)
6. PreOpening Program (gives DVC the ability to take reservations for units which are not yet in the condo association.)

Valet parking is not addressed in any of those categories.

Although valet parking was frequently referred to as a "perk", it falls under the heading of a resort service. It's no different than Disney theme park transportation (buses, boats, monorails), bell services, Community Hall, the concierge desk to assist with tickets & dining reservations, Disney's Magical Express, Internet service, housekeeping...all of which are covered by member dues.

Even though valet parking is operated by an independent company, that fact doesn't impact this situation. DVC doesn't employ most of the CMs who work at the resorts. They contract out with Parks & Resorts for housekeeping services, front desk staff, bus transportation, and so on. They contract with Mears for DME. It would have been well within DVC's rights to contract with the current valet parking provider in order to continue offering that service to members staying at the respective resorts.

I agree that DVC could have been a little more forthcoming on this matter. However, if the decision was forced by changes in the contract with the valet parking supplier (which I believe to be true), it's not terribly surprising that Disney would want to limit what they disclose. They aren't going to be reckless in revealing details of vendor negotiations--even to DVC members.

This is no different than how other major corporations act. McDonald's (just to pick a company) isn't going to comment publicly on why they decided to buy computers from Dell vs. HP, Apple, Sony or Toshiba. Not even to shareholders. That is considered privileged information.

DVC isn't much different since we signed-away our decision-making rights at the time of our purchase. As a large publicly-traded corporation, Disney is very particular about revealing details regarding its vendor relationships. Even if this comes up during the condo meetings, I suspect we will get a politely-worded "no comment."

[kapeman]

Originally Posted by worldfanatic

Hiring valets isn't free. Therefore it costs DVC extra money for the employees needed to handle the cars that DVC members park in valet.
Why wouldn't that extra expense come back to our dues at some point?

Personally I applaud DVC for eliminating free valet parking. I don't want to pay even an extra dollar a year because people are too lazy to walk from the main lot.

If you really want valet, ante up.

Hear, hear!

The same goes for DME.

Those air travelers are so lazy! Why don't they walk from the airport!!



Please remember, the various perks are for all members, whether you use them or not is irrelevant, but some others may use and appreciate them.

[worldfanatic]

Originally Posted by kapeman

Hear, hear!

The same goes for DME.

Those air travelers are so lazy! Why don't they walk from the airport!!



Please remember, the various perks are for all members, whether you use them or not is irrelevant, but some others may use and appreciate them.

Sorry, can't agree.
If I don't use it, It's simply not an important perk!
If I do use it, the perk stays!

I'm thinking DVC should start consulting me before adding or eliminating perks from now on.

When that happens, you can kiss the pool hopping privilege goodbye. What a ridiculous, unnecessary and worthless benefit that one is.

I think I'll keep DME though.

[MR. DISNEY]

My problem isn’t with the fact that it’s not for free any more. It is with the outsourcing.

I just got back last Saturday. I've been a DVC owner since 2000. I own and stay at WL for 1 week in the winter and 2 weeks in the summer. I just think when they outsourced the parking every “Disney” touch went with it.

When I pulled up to check in I didn’t want to unload the car if my room wasn’t ready. I was told to park in self-parking because if the room was ready they would have to get it out of Valet and that would be a problem. I went to Self Park, walked to the front desk and got the room. I had to walk back to pull my car up to the Valet so they could unload the car. At they point I was told that “This will conclude our time together, and you can go inside and give the card to the bellman.” I don’t have a problem with tipping (I’m a bartender part time) and the guys inside at the bellman station were the greatest guys. Some even remembered us. It is just not DVC, It’s just not Disney…sad

[tjkraz]

Originally Posted by MR. DISNEY

My problem isn’t with the fact that it’s not for free any more. It is with the outsourcing.

I just got back last Saturday. I've been a DVC owner since 2000. I own and stay at WL for 1 week in the winter and 2 weeks in the summer. I just think when they outsourced the parking every “Disney” touch went with it.

When I pulled up to check in I didn’t want to unload the car if my room wasn’t ready. I was told to park in self-parking because if the room was ready they would have to get it out of Valet and that would be a problem. I went to Self Park, walked to the front desk and got the room. I had to walk back to pull my car up to the Valet so they could unload the car. At they point I was told that “This will conclude our time together, and you can go inside and give the card to the bellman.” I don’t have a problem with tipping (I’m a bartender part time) and the guys inside at the bellman station were the greatest guys. Some even remembered us. It is just not DVC, It’s just not Disney…sad

IMHO, next time you visit you're just as likely to have an apathetic bell services CM and an enthusiastic valet parker. It really isn't fair to characterize either party based upon a single experience.

Going back to when valet was handled by Disney CMs we've still had mediocre service from valets, front desk staff, bell services, etc. Fortunately that is still the exception rather than the rule, and the same likely holds true today for valets.

As for the DME vs. Free Valet debate, I do think there's an element of need vs. want in there. Anyone who flies into MCO NEEDS to have transportation to WDW. DME provides them with a free, economical (due to cost sharing) alternative.

As for valet parking, that isn't a need for anyone with free self-service lots available. Valet is a luxury. I did some quick back-of-the-napkin math and at $14 per vehicle with 1/3 of guests valet parking, BoardWalk Villas operating expenses would go up by nearly $1 million annually or 5% of the current budget in order to subsidize valet parking. That's in addition to the 2-4% we can expect for normal operating cost increases (salaries, benefits, utilities, etc.)

I can understand folks not wanting to give Disney the benefit of the doubt but consider this: If they wanted to, it would have been well within Disney's rights to cram the valet parking costs into our dues. Members would have had no say in the matter and the charges would have only added to Disney's bottom line. Valet revenues would certainly be far higher with subsidized DVC valet rather than no parking perk/discount at all.

The fact that they didn't just cram millions of dollars worth of parking fees into the dues of 5 DVC properties (6 if you count California) suggests that some consideration was given to the best interests of all DVC members.

[DisneyPhD]

I just talked to DVC Quality Assurance about this topic. According to the representative that I spoke with, valet was indeed included in our dues, most likely a part of the front desk budget (he wasn't certain about that). I told him I thought it was odd that it was advertised as "free" so I suppose we get "free" front desk assistance as well. As for the dues going down, he said you MIGHT see a small decrease in one part of the budget but that would probably be offset by increases in other parts. I don't have a problem not having valet as I rarely have a car on property.

[Phonedave]

Originally Posted by DisneyPhD

I just talked to DVC Quality Assurance about this topic. According to the representative that I spoke with, valet was indeed included in our dues, most likely a part of the front desk budget (he wasn't certain about that). I told him I thought it was odd that it was advertised as "free" so I suppose we get "free" front desk assistance as well. As for the dues going down, he said you MIGHT see a small decrease in one part of the budget but that would probably be offset by increases in other parts. I don't have a problem not having valet as I rarely have a car on property.

Interesting, then it should not have been advertised as a perk.

I am going to have to re-read the fine print on my contract this weekend.

-dave

[tjkraz]

Originally Posted by DisneyPhD

I just talked to DVC Quality Assurance about this topic. According to the representative that I spoke with, valet was indeed included in our dues, most likely a part of the front desk budget (he wasn't certain about that).

That is not consistent with information I obtained from a number of DVC staffers including some on the executive level. A more appropriate department to contact would be member accounting--the folks who calculate and bill the annual dues.

If valet were being funded by member dues, I doubt the service would have been discontinued over a $2 per day (15%) price increase. That could have been absorbed into dues relatively seamlessly.

Originally Posted by Phonedave

Interesting, then it should not have been advertised as a perk.

As stated, I disagree with the assertion that members were charged for valet parking. Nevertheless, when listed on DVCMember.com free valet was NOT cited in the perks section. It was listed along with the description of each resort under the heading of "Resort Services."

[DisneyPhD]

Originally Posted by tjkraz

As stated, I disagree with the assertion that members were charged for valet parking. Nevertheless, when listed on DVCMember.com free valet was NOT cited in the perks section. It was listed along with the description of each resort under the heading of "Resort Services."

I have several versions of the Member Perks pages that are given at resort check in that list complimentary Valet Parking (along with video/dvd rental and fitness center use). I realize this is hardly a legal document but still caries the implication that this was a perk.

[Phonedave]

Originally Posted by DisneyPhD

I have several versions of the Member Perks pages that are given at resort check in that list complimentary Valet Parking (along with video/dvd rental and fitness center use). I realize this is hardly a legal document but still caries the implication that this was a perk.

My thoughts exactly. It is listed in the (non-legal) book of Perks.

I know I have the legal document somewhere that breaks out exactly what my dues went to.

It's been a busy weekend, and quite frankly this is not at the top of my list

I should have a free hour or so tomorrow, when I might get a chance to read through my DVC file.

-dave

[tjkraz]

Originally Posted by DisneyPhD

I have several versions of the Member Perks pages that are given at resort check in that list complimentary Valet Parking (along with video/dvd rental and fitness center use). I realize this is hardly a legal document but still caries the implication that this was a perk.

True enough.

As I said, in every conversation I have had with DVC they insist that free valet truly was a perk and there was no charge to annual dues. For whatever reason (contract renegotiation, Disney no longer wishing to provide for free, etc.) that perk ended on October 11, 2009.

It certainly would have been legal to transition it to a "resort service" which was funded by member dues. But DVC looked at usage data and determined that it was better to make valet a pay-as-you-go option rather than forcing all owners to share in the cost.

[DisneyPhD]

Originally Posted by tjkraz

True enough.

As I said, in every conversation I have had with DVC they insist that free valet truly was a perk and there was no charge to annual dues. For whatever reason (contract renegotiation, Disney no longer wishing to provide for free, etc.) that perk ended on October 11, 2009.

It certainly would have been legal to transition it to a "resort service" which was funded by member dues. But DVC looked at usage data and determined that it was better to make valet a pay-as-you-go option rather than forcing all owners to share in the cost.

I hope you are right Tim! I wish DVC could give a consistent answer. Thanks for your insight into this.

[Phonedave]

Originally Posted by tjkraz

True enough.

As I said, in every conversation I have had with DVC they insist that free valet truly was a perk and there was no charge to annual dues. For whatever reason (contract renegotiation, Disney no longer wishing to provide for free, etc.) that perk ended on October 11, 2009.

It certainly would have been legal to transition it to a "resort service" which was funded by member dues. But DVC looked at usage data and determined that it was better to make valet a pay-as-you-go option rather than forcing all owners to share in the cost.

Well, it would not have been leagal to "just transfer" it. I dug out my Public Offering Statement for Saratoga Springs. They can make changes to the Offering at will unless such a change "would predjuice or impair to any material extent the rights of the Owners". Adding valet into my dues would be a material impairment. So such a change would have to go before the Board.

I also found just what our dues cover (Well, at least for SSR). Safe to say, I am not going to transcribe 3 pages of type. It is on pages 111-115. Summarized dues are for the following

- Admin and Front Desk (Which is front desk operations and resort management. I take that NOT to include parking operations)
- Annual Audit
- DVC Reservation Component
- Fees to the Division (thats a "tax" the State of Florida collects)
- Housekeeping (includes replacing linens and towels)
- Income Taxes
- Insurance
- Legal
- Maintenance (interior and exterior maintenance, pest controll, fire alarm monitoring, landscaping)
- Management Fee
- Member Activites (Newsletter, Annual Meeting, printing and postage for Association mailings, and certain recreational activites at the resort)
- Security
- Transporation
- Utilities


Just some other interesting little things you may or may not know.

When you signed your agreement, you agreed not to bring firearms onto the property - no matter if you are legaly allowed to carry or not. For that matter no explosives or other weapons either. That is an issue to some, because I know of a few people that have coupled a hunting trip in the area with a Disney stay.

No pets either

No decorating your balcony for the holiday - in specific ""No Owner shall decorate ... to affect the apperance from the exterior ... including display of plants or other object from the balconies, railings, window sills, or ledges. Reflective film, or other window treatments, draperies, window shades, screen doors, or lights." However the Association has the sole discretion based on asthetic properties only to determine complaince with this provision. So in other words, if they wanted to be a hard case about it, they could.

Kids are only allowed to play in areas clearly designated for play

No putting up your own sattelite dish or ham radio antenna

No shaking out the mop or rugs from the balcony

Your not allowed on the roof

If you use suntain oil or cream, then you have to put a towel on the chair so you don't get it all icky for the next person - yep, its not just polite, its a rule

You agreed to lock your car and not leave valuable in plain sight when it is parked on property

No using your private watercraft unless you get permission.


Interesting stuff in that document.

-dave