Fantasmic gets cut to just 2 shows per week

markjohns1 said:

So you're saying that DHS is a half day park because you don't like many of the attractions there, or the "great ride" has too long of a wait time? With that kind of logic, you could argue that any park is a "half day park," MK included. What if I said I only liked roller coasters? I would be then willing to ride three attractions at MK. There's a short day! The fact of the matter is that if you partake in all that DHS has to offer, it is easily a full day park even without Fantasmic.

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The difference is that MK is my favorite park and has many more rides that I can go on and more to do for me. HS does not have that many rides for me that I can go on and as far as TSM is concerned, yes I would and have waited in line for 60 mins, it is totally worth it, but one of the reasons I like going to HS is for F. I have partaken in many things that HS has to offer such as Mulch Sweat & Shears, the streetmosphere characters etc. and while that can fill up the day and then have a nice sit down dinner at HS and see F, without F, I find not much reason to be there for the whole day.

wdwmagic said:

MK was certainly not nightly until Wishes like you say.

Illum was 100% every night.

Fantasmic I am not sure about. The press releases indicate nightly, and I have never heard of it not being nightly - other than perhaps the immediate few days after 9-11. I would be ineterested to know for sure when it didnt run.

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I am 95-98% sure Fantasmic didn't run 7 days a week during that time period. When my family would come down here to Orlando, I recall having to plan their vacation around the random night show schedules.

I don't think a press release was created as I think Disney operated Fantasmic like they did Fantasy in the Sky and Spectro at the time. All three fell under the whole Ent times/viewings can change.

I don't think any of the night stuff has been at random except for Spectro once the 50th started.

My two cents...

From what I could find quickly on the 'net, as of 1998, the show had a cost of $75000 PER SHOW! That was $150k a night, 10 years ago!!...let's be conservative, and say that with recent inflation it's now $125k per show...that's $1.7 million a week, or just shy of $90 mil a year...cut it to 2 shows a week, and that saves Disney $75-80 million a year...

I would guess that they are anticipating a drop in attendance also, so let's guess at that (the following #'s are total WAGs, I have no inside data, etc.)...say they expect 2000-3000 less visitors per day at an average ticket price of $40 (since most folks don't pay the full $75 one-day price)...that's a loss of $120k a day, or $44 million a year...I actually think this is probably too conservative, given current economic realities, but anyway...

So...the reduction in the # of F! shows offsets the loss in attendance revenue (and also some of the capital costs of the new attractions being put in the park)...and since there's less guests, there won't be crazy lines, etc...

Hey, cool!! 200 posts!!

Vernonpush said:

Can I skip Sounds Dangerous?:lol:

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Works for me!

shoppingnut said:

The difference is that MK is my favorite park and has many more rides that I can go on and more to do for me. HS does not have that many rides for me that I can go on and as far as TSM is concerned, yes I would and have waited in line for 60 mins, it is totally worth it, but one of the reasons I like going to HS is for F. I have partaken in many things that HS has to offer such as Mulch Sweat & Shears, the streetmosphere characters etc. and while that can fill up the day and then have a nice sit down dinner at HS and see F, without F, I find not much reason to be there for the whole day.

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And I definitely understand that. I was mainly responding to the initial statement in the post I quoted that said

shoppingnut said:

It's totally nonsense that the park has enough other things to do without F

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I just was pointing out that it isn't nonsense. There is a lot to offer at DHS. I won't deny that you will find the park less appealing now and that Fantasmic is really important to you, or that you will now have trouble filling a day at DHS.

WDW is one of those places that you can whip through quickly or take your time to enjoy. That's why some do the "4 parks in 1 day" tour and people like me can easily spend at least two days at Epcot, 2 at MK, 1 at DAK, and 1 at DHS.

markjohns1 said:

WDW is one of those places that you can whip through quickly or take your time to enjoy. That's why some do the "4 parks in 1 day" tour and people like me can easily spend at least two days at Epcot, 2 at MK, 1 at DAK, and 1 at DHS.

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It's just that in the evening hours there isn't much to do if you don't go on ToT and RNR and have done all the other rides because most of the live shows are over by 5p. They do need to put in more rides like TSM that everyone can go on.

During December guests look at the Osborne lights during the evening hours.

Last year the Harem Gospel Choir was also there in the evenings.

VillanovaBlue said:

My two cents...

From what I could find quickly on the 'net, as of 1998, the show had a cost of $75000 PER SHOW! That was $150k a night, 10 years ago!!...let's be conservative, and say that with recent inflation it's now $125k per show...that's $1.7 million a week, or just shy of $90 mil a year...cut it to 2 shows a week, and that saves Disney $75-80 million a year...

I would guess that they are anticipating a drop in attendance also, so let's guess at that (the following #'s are total WAGs, I have no inside data, etc.)...say they expect 2000-3000 less visitors per day at an average ticket price of $40 (since most folks don't pay the full $75 one-day price)...that's a loss of $120k a day, or $44 million a year...I actually think this is probably too conservative, given current economic realities, but anyway...

So...the reduction in the # of F! shows offsets the loss in attendance revenue (and also some of the capital costs of the new attractions being put in the park)...and since there's less guests, there won't be crazy lines, etc...

Hey, cool!! 200 posts!!

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Wikipedia currently says $30,000 per show.

Cutting costs doesn't necessarily "offset" reduced revenue. If it were that easy they'd have cut those costs long ago. When you cut costs by cutting attractions, you will also reduce revenues - perhaps by a greater amount than you're cutting costs.

On whether DHS is a full-day park without Fantasmic....yes, if you wait in line long enough to do TSM several times it's a full-day park. But in the long run you need Fantasmic or a close substitute for it to keep people in the park into the evening.

shoppingnut said:

It's just that in the evening hours there isn't much to do if you don't go on ToT and RNR and have done all the other rides because most of the live shows are over by 5p. They do need to put in more rides like TSM that everyone can go on.

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I think some people on here are severely underestimating how much Fantasmic effects the evening attendance at DHS. No Fantasmic is going to severly hurt revenue in that park in the evening. The best way we are going to be able to tell is how much the cutback on dining in the evening. The things is most entertainment is over by 5 or 6 most nights and besides rides there isn't anything to do. Having a major nighttime show helps create additional revenue for the parks. Why do you think they have been working so hard for the past few years to create a nighttime event for DAK? They will be able to make alot more money in the park if they can keep it open til 8-10 pm most nights.

RiversideBunny said:

During December guests look at the Osborne lights during the evening hours.

Last year the Harem Gospel Choir was also there in the evenings.

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I bet THAT was interesting! :lookaroun:lol:

Vernonpush said:

But without F! then the waits will be quite long since there are now (about)10,000 people who aren't watching that show, standing in the queues.

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No, not really, because according to many in this thread, those 10,000 people will be avoiding DHS without Fantasmic, so there will be no lines at all at the rides.

VillanovaBlue said:

I would guess that they are anticipating a drop in attendance also, so let's guess at that (the following #'s are total WAGs, I have no inside data, etc.)...say they expect 2000-3000 less visitors per day at an average ticket price of $40 (since most folks don't pay the full $75 one-day price)...that's a loss of $120k a day, or $44 million a year...I actually think this is probably too conservative, given current economic realities, but anyway...

So...the reduction in the # of F! shows offsets the loss in attendance revenue (and also some of the capital costs of the new attractions being put in the park)...and since there's less guests, there won't be crazy lines, etc...

Hey, cool!! 200 posts!!

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The problem I see with your thinking here is that you're assumming that skipping DHS means not buying theme park admission for that day. But how many people visiting the WDW Resort for a week would buy theme park admission for the entire week and just visit the MK, Epcot or AK more often in place of DHS, thereby bringing in the same ticket revenue whether the guest visits DHS or not? How many of them would drop a day from their admission because of the lack of Fantasmic, and therefore, a decision not to visit DHS? And let's not forget that by the time you get to 6,7,8 day passes, if I'm not mistaken, the cost of adding another day is quite less than 40 dollars.

I'm not sure how the business end of this works, so maybe someone else can enlighten me. Regarding the bottom line of each individual theme park, does each park get "credit" in their daily "sales" for admissions used at that park? For example, say I buy my 7 day pass and then I visit DHS on the first day. Does the money for that particular admission then go into the coffers of DHS, or is it still just credited to the WDW Resort as a whole?

As an illustration of what I mean, here is how Walmart gift cards work. Let's say you buy a $50 Walmart gift card at your local Walmart and then mail it off to your nephew 200 miles away as a graduation gift. When he uses that card at his local Walmart, it's his Walmart that gets the 50 bucks. You're Walmart doesn't get the 50 bucks even though you bought it there. They don't get credited with a sale when you buy that card. That money is in limbo until it's redeemed in which case that store gets the money. Is that how it works with WDW ticket admissions? Or does the entire fee of admissions for the entire week just go into the WDW general fund?

If it all goes into the general fund, then it makes no difference which park you use your admissions at. But if each park gets their share of the admission money, then DHS would suffer loss of revenue if people visit the other 3 parks instead.

coasterphil said:

Fantasmic! appeals to the average WDW guests, so I really don't get why you keep downplaying it's popularity. Guest counts at the show itself and at the entrance gates in the final hours of park operation prove that.

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I am not downplaying the popularity of Fantasmic, I am simply bringing some statements back to reality. Some people here believe that Fantasmic is what keeps DHS going, that is an overstatement.

shoppingnut said:

HS is really a 1/2 day park at this point for me without F.

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So when Fantasmic is running at DHS you stay at that park the entire day from morning until Fantasmic ends?

unkadug said:

I bet THAT was interesting! :lookaroun:lol:

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HGC was GREAT actually. That is where I was working for Xmas eve and Xmas and loved it. The crowd was so into it, the choir was into it. Made for some great evenings.

jmvd20 said:

Some people here believe that Fantasmic is what keeps DHS going, that is an overstatement.

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So is saying the amount of visitors in the park will remain unchanged whithout it.

Ever looked around right before Fantasmic! starts? How much revenue is Disney sacrificing by losing all the popcorn sales and the thousands of glowing toys they sell every night? Those things aren't cheap and it seems like every kid has one by show time. Of course, if park attendance plummets, this isn't that much of an issue--those folks will just go to Wishes and buy the same toys. I do not envy those guests who need to try and find seats during the two Fantasmic! nights, though.

Timmay said:

So is saying the amount of visitors in the park will remain unchanged whithout it.

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I doubt daily attendance numbers would be effected much at all by it. I doubt many people at WDW are going to say "Well Fantasmic isn't running so we aren't going to DHS today".

jmvd20 said:

I doubt daily attendance numbers would be effected much at all by it. I doubt many people at WDW are going to say "Well Fantasmic isn't running so we aren't going to DHS today".

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Lest we forget, Disney calculates its attendance figures based on the first park you visit in a day--removing Fantasmic!, if anything, may promote more guests going to DHS first thing in the day and then Epcot or the MK later, so DHS could see an artificial boost in attendance numbers. I don't think overall profits are affected at all, though. People who are planning trips to WDW aren't going to cancel because of this. Whether they spend the evening at DHS or Epcot doesn't really matter. They'll still be eating dinner and buying souvenirs.

My last trip there we went for 6 or 7 days, and we only spent one day at DHS, granted it was a full day, but we spent at least 2 days in each of the other 3 parks.

That being said, I really enjoy ToT, RnR, and LMA, and in that full day we did all 3 of those, Indiana Jones, Great Movie Ride, Fantasmic, and we closed out the Osbourne Lights. I'm not a huge Fantasmic fan, but I think that's because I unfairly compare it to the other pyro based shows. We make it a point to see the show once per trip, compared to Wishes and Illuminations which we try to see at least twice.

I do feel that limiting Fantasmic to 2 nights a week will result in the majority of the crowds leaving DHS at around 4-5 PM to go over to MK or Epcot.

WDWPassHolder said:

I can't even begin to understand how the first two posters can give this random guy credit...

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Guess he was to be credited.