Is Phase 2 (or 1B) About to Begin...?

SeaCastle said:

Thanks for the insight...just wondering, in the OC do you have to design by the Coastal Engineering Manual, and wouldn't renovations need to be watched more closely to conform to building codes? (We sure are catching a lucky break, we haven't had "The Big One" come yet.)

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edwardtc said:

I've always thought that they left the north and east walls of the 20K show building for structural reasons. Perhaps they're acting as retaining walls for the adjacent soil - one side or the other.

I can't imagine that they'd go to any sort of extreme lengths to avoid a permit worth a couple thousand dollars, or just to avoid a few minutes of paperwork. No matter what, the new facility must comply with all current building codes applicable to that jurisdiction (which would be the EPCOT Building Code). In no way, shape or form would that facility be "grandfathered" because two exterior walls remained from an old ride. That's not a remodel by any definition.

Now, if someone can show documentation that contradicts what I'm saying, I'll take my shoe off and eat it (with ketchup). :lol:

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SeaCastle said:

Thanks for the insight...just wondering, in the OC do you have to design by the Coastal Engineering Manual, and wouldn't renovations need to be watched more closely to conform to building codes? (We sure are catching a lucky break, we haven't had "The Big One" come yet.)

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Master Yoda said:

I have started doing a little digging and here is what I have come up with so far. The biggest advantage I see to being able to classify this project as a remodel would be avoiding to have to pay impact fees. Orange County is one of the Florida counties that will access an impact fee to any new construction however remodels are exempt. http://www.orangecountyfl.net/default.aspx?tabid=877#Do I have to pay impact fees for an addition or remodel of my existing residence? Per the Orange county site that average impact fee for a new single family home in between $17,000-$18,000. I would imagine that a project the size of the FLE could generate a fee well into 6 possibly 7 figures. Using their online calculator the impact fee for a a 10,000 square foot restaurant is $183,800.00. A 20,000 square foot restaurant comes in at $367,600.00. I know if I was Disney I would do anything I could to avoid writing that check.

I have been trying to find some official documentation as to what constitutes a remodel but so far I have come up empty. From my personal experience the requirements are incredibly lax. I worked on a 10,000 square foot house that was classified as a remodel because they used about 10 linear feet of wall form an existing house on the property. I also had a gas station that did the same thing using about 30 linear feet of wall from the old gas station on the property.

Now I do not know if Disney is subject to impact fees but considering that they still have to pay for permits I can't imagine them being able to skirt past the impact fees.

I'll keep digging and see what else I come up with.

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Master Yoda said:

The Florida Building Code is based on national model building codes and national consensus standards which are amended where necessary for Florida's specific needs. Prior to 2002 each county used their own building code. In 1998 it was decided to get Florida to operate under one universal building code for the entire state. As ofMarch 1, 2002, the Florida Building Code, which is developed and maintained by the Florida Building Commission, supersedes all local building codes. The Florida Building Code is updated every three years and may be amended annually to incorporate interpretations and clarifications.

In regards to wind code Florida currently uses ASCE-05 and the wind speed and exposure will vary depending on the location of the building. Disney is located in a 110 MPH 3 second gust speed , non wind borne debris zone. Exposure will be either B or D.

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edwardtc said:

WOW! We have impact fees around here, but they're just from the sewer & water district (utilities). They charge an impact fee of a few grand when you tie into their main with a new building.

I've never heard of a local government charging outrageous amounts of money just to build. Sounds like they're really out to DETER anyone from building, which means they're just contributing to the downturn of everything...but I could go on and on about that.

Wow...that's just absurb. I can't get over it. If we tried to tell a customer of ours that not only is his new restaurant going to cost a million dollars, but he also has to write a check to the county for almost $200k - he'd go build in another county or state.

One more reason why I hope to never move to FL.

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edwardtc said:

So, if the EPCOT Building code obsolete then? RCID still sells current copies and acts like they enforce it. I guess it could always be stricter than FL's code.

I know that EPCOT is based on the IBC, which is also what Indiana has adopted and amended.

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Master Yoda said:

Each county is a little different when it comes to impact fees. Mostly they seem to come about in rural counties where building of homes and businesses was going faster than the infrastructure could support it. They were designed to slow expansion down a bit and provide a revenue to improve infrastructure. In that respect I understand them but they can be rather insane.

They can still use it as long as it meets or exceeds the current code. Quite honestly I have no idea what code they are using in WDW but the one project I did for Disney in Castaway Cay was done to Florida Code using a 150 mph wind speed, exposure C, partially enclosed structure. The uplift on a standard 7' end jack was more than 800 lbs but those are pretty standard specs for construction in the Bahamas.

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edwardtc said:

Interesting. thanks for the info!

If you visit RCID's site, you'll see several references to the EPCOT Building Code, and it seems as if it still applies in the District. But like you said, they've probably just adopted IBC with Florida's amendments, and then made their own (which are likely stricter).

I wish my resume could say that I built something at Castaway Cay! Hospitals are boring :lol:

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Master Yoda said:

I also got to add a hidden Mickey to my resume.

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edwardtc said:

Very nice!

Was that also at CC, or on an unrelated project?

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Master Yoda said:

That was at CC. Sadly the only person that will ever see it is the guy that gets to go into the attic and repair the AC unit.

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vonpluto said:

I'm in the GC/nail banger end of it, not planning or design, so the CEM would probably be Greek to me.

Renovations are inspected and code enforced the same as new work. Hurricane structure requirements are thru the roof since Andrew. (Literally)

As for "The Big One", who needs it, Nor'easters are bad enough. Ninth Street bridge was closed due to high tides twice in the last five days.

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mhaftman7 said:

Was there last weekend. How many lanes is the new bridge? My wife asked why it was so high and I told her that the water levels have to be an effect. Is it just me or does it seem like OC is eroding into the ocean? All the beach work adding sand and it seems like the water backs up every drain in the morning. It just seems like it keeps getting worse. I think the Southbound lanes of West between 36th and 40th were completely flooded Saturday morning.

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jtizzle1023 said:

I thought that they where taking the old dumbo and putting it next to the new one. If you look at the concept art one dumbo is bigger then the other. I thought they were just moving the old and adding the new? I might be wrong.

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vonpluto said:

I'm in the GC/nail banger end of it, not planning or design, so the CEM would probably be Greek to me.

Renovations are inspected and code enforced the same as new work. Hurricane structure requirements are thru the roof since Andrew. (Literally)

As for "The Big One", who needs it, Nor'easters are bad enough. Ninth Street bridge was closed due to high tides twice in the last five days.

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Biff215 said:

First, I wanted to say hi from Galloway!

Second, thanks to all of you for finding all these documents and attempting to decipher them. I find it really interesting that Disney had the foresight a couple of years back to keep a couple of walls when they filled in the lagoon. They clearly had some plans at that point. Unless those walls were actually holding something up, I really can't understand why they would keep them unless they benefited them in some way. Personally I would rather build new walls than keep some that are nearly 40 years old, so there must be something to it.

Friends of ours recently gutted a house and attempted to keep a certain number of walls intact to keep it as a "renovation" as opposed to a "new construction". Of course the township came in, deemed one of the walls "fire-damaged" and forced them to tear it down. It probably wasn't a coincidence considering the housing downturn and major drops in profits from permit fees!

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WDWfqntflyer said:

Am I the only one that didn't know there were addresses in MK:lookaroun

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jtizzle1023 said:

If you look at the concept art one dumbo is bigger then the other. I thought they were just moving the old and adding the new? I might be wrong.

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