Disney Co pledges to Reduce Carbon Emissions to Zero

Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Timon said:
Today's "full" hybrids are the first step away from internal combustion engines. The "Volt" is the next step - the plug in hybrid. There is bunch of companies coming out with plug in hybrids. Disney should pick and choose the vehicle that best fits (size) it's needs from any company not just GM.

I do have reservations that GM is going to build it though. I had heard they put the Volt factory construction on hold. For all their "green" chatter I don't think they have a "full" hybrid (like Prius). They have partial hybrids, flex fuel (a joke), a cylinder shut down scheme. The only GM hybrid I've heard about is the Escalade for a zillion dollars. Companies like Disney need to move people and material in vans, or SUV sized vehicles. Prius sized cars are generally too small to haul the volume.



What do fuel cells have to do with photovoltaics?

Nuclear is very expensive as Master Yoda states, having a father in the business I know that every nuclear power plant is a "from scratch" custom job. In France there has been on common plan that has evolved from day one. Which cuts development costs and spare part costs. This is something we should consider too.
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Hydrogen as an automotive fuel has 2 main problems. The first is storage space. We simply can not cram enough hydrogen into a container similar in size to an automotive gas tank and get the same range out of it. That problem looks like it might be solved by a new storage system using carbon nano tubes but is is still a ways off. The other issue is producing hydrogen. The easiest way for us to do it is by pulling the hydrogen out of water by electrolysis. The problem is that it currently takes more energy to get the hydrogen out of water than can be produced by the extracted hydrogen. We end up burning more coal, oil or natural gas to get the hydrogen then we would have by just putting gas in our tank. This is where the improved photovoltaics come in. Once those are advanced enough we can use them to generate the electricity needed to pull the hydrogen out of water. Essentially a a hydrogen gas station would consist of a water line, an electrolysis machine and solar panels.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Timon said:
Today's "full" hybrids are the first step away from internal combustion engines. The "Volt" is the next step - the plug in hybrid. There is bunch of companies coming out with plug in hybrids. Disney should pick and choose the vehicle that best fits (size) it's needs from any company not just GM.

I do have reservations that GM is going to build it though. I had heard they put the Volt factory construction on hold. For all their "green" chatter I don't think they have a "full" hybrid (like Prius). They have partial hybrids, flex fuel (a joke), a cylinder shut down scheme. The only GM hybrid I've heard about is the Escalade for a zillion dollars. Companies like Disney need to move people and material in vans, or SUV sized vehicles. Prius sized cars are generally too small to haul the volume.



What do fuel cells have to do with photovoltaics?

Nuclear is very expensive as Master Yoda states, having a father in the business I know that every nuclear power plant is a "from scratch" custom job. In France there has been on common plan that has evolved from day one. Which cuts development costs and spare part costs. This is something we should consider too.
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Nuclear is a perfect transitional technology. Clean, proven and SAFE! Recent breakthroughs will also allow reprocessing of spent material for reuse which will greatly eliminate storage issues. Standization and fast tracking of construction is the way to go IMO.

Now, since Disney is "going green" wouldn't it be neat if they developed prefered parking for plug-ins that allowed people to charge their vehicles at both the resorts and theme park parking lots free of charge to encourage the spread of the technology through greater visibility not to mention the educational value it would provide?
 
Timon

Timon

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't you think solar panels in car roofs - today - could at least top off the battery, run a venting fan or begin to recharge a hybrid's battery. As years go by the efficiency would get better. I know I would love my car to be under 100 degrees after cooking in the ol Disney parking lot all day.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
devoy1701 said:
talk about a waste of college credit. :brick:

newsflash (not a mainstream newsflash at that) Global Warming is a Hoax.
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For me the issue is not global warming, it's economic and national security. Our over dependence on imported energy is no hoax.
 
Missing20K

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
For me the issue is not global warming, it's economic and national security. Our over dependence on imported energy is no hoax.
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For me, it's just simple common sense and logic. We could harness an abundant, and essentially limitless energy source, that leaves no waste or pollution? Makes sense to me. Plants know what's up.

A little more back on topic...does anyone know exactly what makes a "high-quality offset" different than a normal carbon offset?
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Polyman said:
Oh yeah, they're off to a great start. Have you seen the new fleet of Hybrid Chevy Equinox's that Security is using at Epcot? They operate just the opposite of a Toyota Prius for example. The Prius runs on the electric motor until it reaches highway speed, at which time it switches over to gasoline. Security's Equinoxes run on gasoline until they reach about 25 mph, then the hybrid portion kicks in. Unfortunately, during their use in the parking lot, they rarely reach speeds of over 15 mph. So all the idling while they sit, and while on patrol up and down the rows, they are using gasoline. One Security CM recently told me he's getting about 12 mpg. You can get 12 mpg on an RV or Hummer. How's that for Green? :brick::hammer:
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I call BS on this story. No hybrid system operates like this as it wouldn't make any sense. The whole point of a hybrid powertrain is to increase efficiency in stop and go driving and to turn off the engine when stopped. GM's "mild" hybrid design used on some cars pretty much just turns the engine off when stopped and doesn't do much else. GM's full hybrid systems work like any other hybrid with the electric motor providing acceleration assist and using regenerative braking to capture braking energy. Perhaps the CM is confusing hybrid with Displacement on Demand (or whatever the current name is) where 1/2 the cylinders get turned off when cruising.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Timon said:
Today's "full" hybrids are the first step away from internal combustion engines. The "Volt" is the next step - the plug in hybrid. There is bunch of companies coming out with plug in hybrids. Disney should pick and choose the vehicle that best fits (size) it's needs from any company not just GM.

I do have reservations that GM is going to build it though. I had heard they put the Volt factory construction on hold. For all their "green" chatter I don't think they have a "full" hybrid (like Prius). They have partial hybrids, flex fuel (a joke), a cylinder shut down scheme. The only GM hybrid I've heard about is the Escalade for a zillion dollars. Companies like Disney need to move people and material in vans, or SUV sized vehicles. Prius sized cars are generally too small to haul the volume.
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GM has several full hybrids including the Tahoe (aka the cheap version of the escalade). The reason that GM doesn't build full hybrid small cars and instead uses the "mild" hybrid is that the full hybrid system is VERY expensive. All automotive industry analysts say that Toyota loses money on every prius it sells today. The only way to make a profitable full hybrid right now is to put it in an expensive vehicle. GM is expecting to lose several thousand dollars on every Volt they sell but they are building it to develop the plug-in hybrid technology.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
devoy1701 said:
Hybrid technology of today is a joke! There is nothing to brag about when a hybrid engine gets 34mpg. They were surpassing that back in the 70s...we just happened to regress a bit. Seriously, the technology we have today will be obsolete within a decade. The real answer is getting off the combustion engine.
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The hybrids are something to brag about. The reason you could get better milage in small cars in the 70's is because a small car could be made to weigh less than today. The safety requirements in the US add a LOT of weight to the vehicles. The engines themselves are much more efficient than they were in the 70's but the vehicles are heavier. If you put a modern small 4 cylinder engine in a 1970's corolla you'd probably get 70 mpg.

Also, the internal combustion engine is not evil. It is cheap and lightweight for the power it produces and it turns 23% or so of the energy in the fuel into usable energy.

Plug-in hybrid (or full electric) vehicles are not some miracle. The power plant isn't 100% efficient. It only turns 40-60% of the available energy into electricity. Then there are some transmission losses and energy loss when charging the battery. It ends up somewhat more efficient than an internal combustion engine but it is certainly not "zero" emmissions (unless the source power is nuclear, wind, solar or hydro).

The near term solution to producing energy (and reducing CO2 if you believe it is causing global warming) is simple. Build out wind farms in areas where there is reliable strong enough wind, build some solar thermal plants where they make real sense (which isn't many places) and at least double our nuclear capacity using the latest nuclear technology. "Green" energy is great but in the near term it would be a feat just to get 30% of the nations power produced by wind/solar/hydroelectric. Nuclear can easily produce 40-60% of our power which will make it possible to eventually get off of fossil fuels.
 
ryanduggers

ryanduggers

Member
does anyone know how the hybrid bus test went? maybe we can assume it went well enough to help make this "green" policy decision.
By the way, London will be utilizing a fleet of hydrogen fuel cell busses for the 2012 olympics.

I know this for a fact.
 
NadieMasK2

NadieMasK2

Active Member
So will admission come with a complimentary pack of Beano??

I don't see how you can eliminate 100% emissions.....this seems like some nice PR to put out there but perhaps a little lofty.
 
Kamikaze

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
Timon said:
Wouldn't you think solar panels in car roofs - today - could at least top off the battery, run a venting fan or begin to recharge a hybrid's battery. As years go by the efficiency would get better. I know I would love my car to be under 100 degrees after cooking in the ol Disney parking lot all day.
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No. The surface area of a car roof is far too small to do anything of any substance.
 
Giraffe Lounge

Giraffe Lounge

Member
jt04 said:
So then why is BMW integrating solar panels into the roofs of their new electrics?

(see previous post link)
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Its possibly just a cute marketing angle. The article doesn't state how much electricity is actually generated by the panels-- the thing still gets plugged in.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
CMU-Lighting said:
Its possibly just a cute marketing angle. The article doesn't state how much electricity is actually generated by the panels-- the thing still gets plugged in.
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I don't think anyone would believe a single solar panel could power an automobile. Obviously it will still be plugged in for recharging.

Of note, MIT just announced a battery technology breakthrough that allows cell phone batteries to charge in seconds literally. It is projected the technology is scalable and likely will permit electric car batteries to charge in minutes.

I was thinking that if a charge strip was placed in the roadway at specific intervals it might even be possible for an electric car to charge with this new technology while it's moving though a descending "tail hook" type conduit or even overhead device similar to how electric trolly vehicles work. If it does allow batteries to charge in minutes we will all be driving electric cars a lot sooner then anyone would have ever thought!:D
 
S

Spyne

Member
It's indeed a pretty ambitious plan for Disney to undertake, but a very difficult one as well. We'll see exactly how they can pull it off! :)
 
Missing20K

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Kamikaze said:
No. The surface area of a car roof is far too small to do anything of any substance.
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I'll just repost my earlier post.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=3415459&postcount=68

They are having it run a fan for cooling purposes when the car is parked and to help power the AC. Not much, granted, but it's a start. They said it would be an option on 2009 models but it appears that it will be available for the 2010 year.

Another link: http://jalopnik.com/397945/new-toyota-prius-to-get-solar-panels-as-symbolic-gesture
 

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