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Another death on M:S
- Thread starter disneymonger
- Start date
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
Timmay said:
I'm not saying that it's Disney's fault that the people that are getting sick because they're not following these instructions...I am just making that observation that it could be the reason for the illness. (And, there is no proof that because they didn't follow the "looking straight ahead" rule, it caused deaths....actually, that would only cause disorientation and nauseau...not contribute to a heart condition.) (Again, if I misunderstood your post about the instructions, I apologize)
And, if 3 deaths in the short amount of time the attraction has been opened happens, that is a lot. Three too many in my eyes.
Timmay
Well-Known Member
WDWFREAK53 said:
I was just confused becuase you said your problem with M:S was that it required you to follow safety instructions ( I assume you meant they needed to be followed to prevent ilness or getting hurt). Well, all thrill rides require you to follow safety instructions to prevent injury...some illness.
I will disagree with one thing: I believe that becoming disoriented could very easlily lead to an aggrivation of hypertension or a heart condition. You already are having an adrenaline dump (up goes the bp and heartrate) now you turn your head and start getting sick, then sicker, now your body sends everything into overdrive (and because of a medical condition, things may not turn out good...maybe even horrific)
Grim Grinner
New Member
Is it too late to ask for Horizons back?
In all seriousness, the sustained G-Forces aren't significant to really affect a human body. It's akin to the several minutes of ascention in an airplane. The only real effect is on the equilibrium, which makes people dizzy.
One flaw in the ride is that the Imagineers forgot that humans are social creatures by nature. Although you're supposed to have your head back and your eyes open and facing forward- everyone... even myself- has to look at their significant other. Even if it's only to see when they're supposed to hit their button, they look. This will enhance the likelyhood of someone getting sick.
The first time I got off of Mission: Space I leaned while I walked for about a minute after riding. After that I intentionally tried to get myself sick. I even drank 5 glasses of Beverly beforehand and then leaned forward and looked sideways. Not even a glimmer of sickness, although spinners normally get to me.
It's not the greatest ride on Disney property, but it is unique. This strangeness scares people more than the usual fare and hence it gets more attention.
The stress of walking around in hot weather for hours on end can wear down the healthiest Disney-goer. Put into that environment, most people tend to forget to rest as they're pulled to the next big dose of pure bliss. Heck, my wife and I forgot to eat one day... Well, we were on a roll.
I don't blame Mission: Space. It's not my favorite, but I'll ride it. I'd rather have Horizons, but at least Disney tried something innovative. I believe that due to these tragic events, it will never be cloned elsewhere.
In all seriousness, the sustained G-Forces aren't significant to really affect a human body. It's akin to the several minutes of ascention in an airplane. The only real effect is on the equilibrium, which makes people dizzy.
One flaw in the ride is that the Imagineers forgot that humans are social creatures by nature. Although you're supposed to have your head back and your eyes open and facing forward- everyone... even myself- has to look at their significant other. Even if it's only to see when they're supposed to hit their button, they look. This will enhance the likelyhood of someone getting sick.
The first time I got off of Mission: Space I leaned while I walked for about a minute after riding. After that I intentionally tried to get myself sick. I even drank 5 glasses of Beverly beforehand and then leaned forward and looked sideways. Not even a glimmer of sickness, although spinners normally get to me.
It's not the greatest ride on Disney property, but it is unique. This strangeness scares people more than the usual fare and hence it gets more attention.
The stress of walking around in hot weather for hours on end can wear down the healthiest Disney-goer. Put into that environment, most people tend to forget to rest as they're pulled to the next big dose of pure bliss. Heck, my wife and I forgot to eat one day... Well, we were on a roll.
I don't blame Mission: Space. It's not my favorite, but I'll ride it. I'd rather have Horizons, but at least Disney tried something innovative. I believe that due to these tragic events, it will never be cloned elsewhere.
Grim Grinner
New Member
In terms of deaths, the Peoplemover in Disneyland sustained far more casulties in a much shorter time than Mission: Space. Of course, it's gone now- but not for that reason.
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Also think about all the people that don't realize they HAVE to drink more water when being so active in the Florida heat!Grim Grinner said:
Again, I agree 100%... well, 99%. (everything except Horizons.) :lol:Grim Grinner said:
lilphil6487
New Member
i feel terrible that someone else had died on mission space. right now, mission space is my seccond favorite ride (tot is my first). it is not right to blame disney ro the victim... yet. if the victim had a condition, and knew about it, it is there fault for riding it, but we dont know that yet. if they didnt know about a condition just like that little boy, then it is def. no ones fault and is an accident. If the ride was functioning improperly, then it would be disney's fault, but it wasnt malfunctioning, so it isnt disney's fault. it is very unfortunate, and im sure if i was in the family's position i would be lookin at it form a different angle. that being said, i think disney should tone it down. not shut it down, just tone it down. people, especially the media, will blame disney, so just to help disney they should do it. im not saying i blame disney, but just to do it to save themselves from being put at fault. there are rides like this all over the country. ther is a ride here at seaside called the gravitron where you are ina centrifuge jsut like mission space. people have died b4 at seaside, but disney is a major theme park, so it would be publicized. it is terrible, but oh well. i just hope that they dont shut down mission space. i love that ride.
Connor002
Active Member
I know I posted this somewhere else, but I'll do it again with a few modifications.
Mission Space is not nearly as intense in terms of actually forces acting upon the body as compared to other thrill rides. Most of it's intensity lies not in the system's settings, but in the execution. It's physiological thrill. How many warnings did you receive? How much hype did you hear? More than enough, I'll say, but in reality, M:S is just a dressed-up centrifuge, and a rather tame one at that (as far as centrifuges go). By incorporating the element claustrophobia and the mental perceptions of varied movement, the ride is made more "intense." Now, though, looking at it from a different point of view: M:S has an identity problem. People need to understand that this is not a roller coaster thrill, this is part hypergravity and part physiological thrill. This is not a great example, considering the fate which came to it, but in many ways M:S can be put on a level similar to Alien Encounter.
For better or for worse, we all know the fate that became for AE.
But getting back to the centrifuge idea, let's take this example: Have you ever seen or ridden the Mission:Space-light at your local fair, carnival, or amusement park? Well, they go by many names ("The Roundup," "Gravitron," "Starship 2000," "Vortex" ), but the concept is the same: achievement of hypergravity, otherwise known as increased pressure on the body in the form of gravitational forces, measured in G forces. Now, let's look at this logically: M:S is a "death trap," so obviously it must be the most intense centrifuge for civilians!
Well, no. NASA reports that Gravitrons have been documented at as much as 3.0 sustained g. Other sources suggest up to 4.0 g. Mission:Space has been confirmed to reach no higher than 2.0 sustained g. For reference, Space Launches are around 3.2 sustained g at launch.
Yes, that Gravitorn down at the fair could be as intense as a space launch.
Mission: Space not only stays far below this mark, it most likely was/is held to the highest standards in the industry. Not to mention, Disney know if something truly is wrong with the ride, there will be a massive PR nightmare.
So, what is it that makes M:S different? It's Disney! The Big Dog! (Or perhaps more appropriately) The Big Cheese! *In 1998 there were over 20 serious, reported accidents at amusement parks, but guess which one got the most attention? "One dead, three injured after Disneyland accidents," that's what. The simple fact is that Disney is held to a higher standard, and when they fail to meet that the media has a field day.
Sources:
http://exploration.nasa.gov/articles...nggravity.html
http://www.ride-extravaganza.com/rides/gravitron/
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/carcr2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_force
http://www.rideaccidents.com/1998.html#dec24*
*Not completely accurate; does not include every accident
Postscript: Just for note, Sustained g and a regular g force (typically lasting only a few seconds), can be have very different effects on the body. Many roller coasters can pull over, The Hulk over at Universal pulls a maximum of 4.0 g. The reason for the difference is that most roller coasters pull those forces for no more than a few seconds, Centrifuges can sustain the force a long period of time. Under the stress, the body's organs (most importantly the heart) must work harder than usual to deliver blood. The body is working about twice as hard as usual, working against twice the normal force of gravity. Some people have conditions which make this much harded to cope with, or to put it simply, their body just can't do it. Sometimes these conditions are detected, sometimes they are not. Whether the death of one with such a condition is the fault of the stress-or or the stress-ee, is very much up to debate and the specific circumstances.
Mission Space is not nearly as intense in terms of actually forces acting upon the body as compared to other thrill rides. Most of it's intensity lies not in the system's settings, but in the execution. It's physiological thrill. How many warnings did you receive? How much hype did you hear? More than enough, I'll say, but in reality, M:S is just a dressed-up centrifuge, and a rather tame one at that (as far as centrifuges go). By incorporating the element claustrophobia and the mental perceptions of varied movement, the ride is made more "intense." Now, though, looking at it from a different point of view: M:S has an identity problem. People need to understand that this is not a roller coaster thrill, this is part hypergravity and part physiological thrill. This is not a great example, considering the fate which came to it, but in many ways M:S can be put on a level similar to Alien Encounter.
For better or for worse, we all know the fate that became for AE.
But getting back to the centrifuge idea, let's take this example: Have you ever seen or ridden the Mission:Space-light at your local fair, carnival, or amusement park? Well, they go by many names ("The Roundup," "Gravitron," "Starship 2000," "Vortex" ), but the concept is the same: achievement of hypergravity, otherwise known as increased pressure on the body in the form of gravitational forces, measured in G forces. Now, let's look at this logically: M:S is a "death trap," so obviously it must be the most intense centrifuge for civilians!
Well, no. NASA reports that Gravitrons have been documented at as much as 3.0 sustained g. Other sources suggest up to 4.0 g. Mission:Space has been confirmed to reach no higher than 2.0 sustained g. For reference, Space Launches are around 3.2 sustained g at launch.
Yes, that Gravitorn down at the fair could be as intense as a space launch.
Mission: Space not only stays far below this mark, it most likely was/is held to the highest standards in the industry. Not to mention, Disney know if something truly is wrong with the ride, there will be a massive PR nightmare.
So, what is it that makes M:S different? It's Disney! The Big Dog! (Or perhaps more appropriately) The Big Cheese! *In 1998 there were over 20 serious, reported accidents at amusement parks, but guess which one got the most attention? "One dead, three injured after Disneyland accidents," that's what. The simple fact is that Disney is held to a higher standard, and when they fail to meet that the media has a field day.
Sources:
http://exploration.nasa.gov/articles...nggravity.html
http://www.ride-extravaganza.com/rides/gravitron/
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/carcr2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_force
http://www.rideaccidents.com/1998.html#dec24*
*Not completely accurate; does not include every accident
Postscript: Just for note, Sustained g and a regular g force (typically lasting only a few seconds), can be have very different effects on the body. Many roller coasters can pull over, The Hulk over at Universal pulls a maximum of 4.0 g. The reason for the difference is that most roller coasters pull those forces for no more than a few seconds, Centrifuges can sustain the force a long period of time. Under the stress, the body's organs (most importantly the heart) must work harder than usual to deliver blood. The body is working about twice as hard as usual, working against twice the normal force of gravity. Some people have conditions which make this much harded to cope with, or to put it simply, their body just can't do it. Sometimes these conditions are detected, sometimes they are not. Whether the death of one with such a condition is the fault of the stress-or or the stress-ee, is very much up to debate and the specific circumstances.
This Makes Me Soooooo Mad!!!!!!!!!
(Please don't bash me for this)
I love Disney and ALL the attractions contained therein. I have never, in all my years, refused or been afraid to ride anything..until now. I rode mission space only once last year. I was so violently ill I actually found myself wishing that I would black out. I had horrible chest pains, extreme dizziness and horroble vertigo that lasted for at least 3 hours after the ride.
I must tell you that I have no exsisting conditions or health problems whatsoever. I am a young woman in ther 20's and have noting wrong with me.
I know that there are some people who can handle it, but I just dont think that Disney should have ANYTHING that can cause problems like that in their park. It is a huge liability, and simply not worth it.
The truth is that I read all the signs, listenend to all the announcments, and heeded every single warning. But, like I said I have no motion sickness, no health problems, and am fairly brave. Plus I figured that Disney would never put anything dangerous in it's parks. How was I to know that this ride would almost kill me?
Plus, what if it was your mother, sister, brother or child. What if you have a loved one that does not yet know that they are on the verge of an embolism, heart attack, stroke? Would you be as self rightous yelling and screaming "read the signs" or "Yeah, but these people had pre-exsisting conditions" if it was your mother lying on that floor dying? Would you be shrugging your shoulders saying "Hey, why should I suffer by having this ride taken away" if it was your child lying on the floor lifeless? NO YOU WOULDNT!!
You would be ranting and raving screaming "why does Disney have this stupid attraction in the park!?!? This attraction killed my ___________"!! Where's their corportate responsibility!!?!?
The truth is that Disney is a family park and there SHOULD NOT BE ANYTHING IN THAT PARK THAT IS DANGEROUS ENOUGH TO KILL YOU. Period, dot, end of story.
Thanks for hearing me out. This story just struck a cord
(Please don't bash me for this)
I love Disney and ALL the attractions contained therein. I have never, in all my years, refused or been afraid to ride anything..until now. I rode mission space only once last year. I was so violently ill I actually found myself wishing that I would black out. I had horrible chest pains, extreme dizziness and horroble vertigo that lasted for at least 3 hours after the ride.
I must tell you that I have no exsisting conditions or health problems whatsoever. I am a young woman in ther 20's and have noting wrong with me.
I know that there are some people who can handle it, but I just dont think that Disney should have ANYTHING that can cause problems like that in their park. It is a huge liability, and simply not worth it.
The truth is that I read all the signs, listenend to all the announcments, and heeded every single warning. But, like I said I have no motion sickness, no health problems, and am fairly brave. Plus I figured that Disney would never put anything dangerous in it's parks. How was I to know that this ride would almost kill me?
Plus, what if it was your mother, sister, brother or child. What if you have a loved one that does not yet know that they are on the verge of an embolism, heart attack, stroke? Would you be as self rightous yelling and screaming "read the signs" or "Yeah, but these people had pre-exsisting conditions" if it was your mother lying on that floor dying? Would you be shrugging your shoulders saying "Hey, why should I suffer by having this ride taken away" if it was your child lying on the floor lifeless? NO YOU WOULDNT!!
You would be ranting and raving screaming "why does Disney have this stupid attraction in the park!?!? This attraction killed my ___________"!! Where's their corportate responsibility!!?!?
The truth is that Disney is a family park and there SHOULD NOT BE ANYTHING IN THAT PARK THAT IS DANGEROUS ENOUGH TO KILL YOU. Period, dot, end of story.
Thanks for hearing me out. This story just struck a cord
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
jsfra209 said:
I understand your feelings, but you must also realize that anything in life can be 'dangerous' under the right circumstances. Other's have died in theme parks around the world. M:S is not the only attraction that has been involved in situations like this. We can't draw the conclusion the just because someone died after riding M:S that there is something inherently wrong with it or that it is any more dangerous than other thrill rides.
There's a reason it's called a thrill ride. It pushes your body and throws stimuli at you that you do not normally encounter. Same for cliff diving, sky diving, racing or any other activity that produces a rush and thrill. In fact, if you watch the Discovery channel and their thrill ride shows, you'll see that ALL thrill ride designers see their goal as 'pushing the envelope for stimulating and thrilling the rider'. They just have to do this in a way that is as safe as possible.
With all that said, IF an investigation concludes that M:S was the sole cause in a death or that it exceeds the safety level for thrill attractions, then they should seriously rethink how it works.
SarahBella82
Well-Known Member
wannab@dis said:
Well stated. An unrecognized ailment can kill a person sitting on the sofa as effectively as a person sitting in M:S. That said, if it is determined that the ride produces stresses that are in excess of the WARNINGS, I think M:S needs to be reevaluated.
thisisnotanexit
New Member
i agree that people should take responsibility for their own actions and consider the many warnings. however, it's just unfortunate that there exists a ride at WDW that necessitates such warnings. i don't like feeling worried. like someone else said earlier, some heart conditions and such are sometimes unknown (like in the case of the little boy). oh well, i know i won't let my 50 something year old parents ride this anymore.
dimebagdarrel
New Member
The people on this board are becoming more and more insensitive. If it was one of your family members that died, you wouldn't be defending a ride that has now killed 2 people. Mission space has been a failure since the day that it has opened. It's time to cut our losses with this ride. I'm as big a Disney fan as anyone else here, and I also enjoy the ride very much, but enough is enough people.
blackerbys17
New Member
TiggerRPh said:
Oh, that's too bad. I actually love anything space related and I was really looking forward to enjoying this ride. It is a shame that I can't enjoy it, even when I follow all the directions such as keeping your eyes open and looking straight ahead. It is the only ride that has ever made me ill, much less violently ill. I don't get it. I am in my 20s with no health problems at all. Go figure.
Well, I still think they should do "something" though I guess I don't know what that should be.
Grim Grinner
New Member
So far the ride itself has not killed anyone yet, although investigations into this recent incident may change that.
We're not being cold and heartless here. I don't think anyone here had complained the DL's Big Thunder Mountain was shut down for an extended time when it had an actual fatality. There's just a big misconception on what this ride actually is/does.
Dumbo is a spinner, Aladdin is a spinner... Tricera-tops is a spinner too. Should we remove these? I assure you just as many people have gotten sick on them. Mission: Space, due to its enclosed nature seems to affect people who do not realize that the ride spins.
I TRIED to get sick and couldn't- but the first time was a little bit weird afterward.
If something had happened to a member of my family, I'd be upset- but I'd also want an explanation more than anything else.
We're not being cold and heartless here. I don't think anyone here had complained the DL's Big Thunder Mountain was shut down for an extended time when it had an actual fatality. There's just a big misconception on what this ride actually is/does.
Dumbo is a spinner, Aladdin is a spinner... Tricera-tops is a spinner too. Should we remove these? I assure you just as many people have gotten sick on them. Mission: Space, due to its enclosed nature seems to affect people who do not realize that the ride spins.
I TRIED to get sick and couldn't- but the first time was a little bit weird afterward.
If something had happened to a member of my family, I'd be upset- but I'd also want an explanation more than anything else.
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
TAC said:I agree. Disney should close all of WDW because it is purely possible for any attraction to kill any person at any time, so close the whole thing, including DL, Paris, Tokoyo, etc.
Disney should be a company that just puts out movies and sells merchandise. No theme parks, no rides, no attactions, no nothing.
Whuh? People could slice their jugular with the edge of their DVD!!! We can't make those either.