Possible Frontierland expansion

[FitzCats]

This would be a great IP for a frontierland e-ticket which isn't already covered or offensive in today's political environment

Deep down I'm really hoping they bring a non-IP E-Ticket to Frontierland. It's worked well recently in other Disney parks (Mystic Manor at HKDL, heck even Everest), but I'm doubtful that WDW execs are willing to forgo the the IP route.

 

[Matt_Black]

Wow, the noise I made in my cubicle after reading that must really make me look like an unproductive employee.

I do my best.

 

[wogwog]

As mentioned, it previously existed and was shut down. Not really a good fit for Orlando -- way too hot for most of the year (who wants to paddle while baking in the sun?) and frequent rain shuts it down. Maybe it could be brought back seasonally like around Christmas just for capacity, but don't really see the point.

Don't forget an occasional gator finds the way to Rivers of America.

 

[bakntime]

Deep down I'm really hoping they bring a non-IP E-Ticket to Frontierland. It's worked well recently in other Disney parks (Mystic Manor at HKDL, heck even Everest), but I'm doubtful that WDW execs are willing to forgo the the IP route.

With the plethora of successful IP that Disney now has (Lucasfilm/Star Wars/Indy, Pixar, a resurgent Disney Animation Studio, tons of classic animated and live action films), I'm sure it's hard for them to watch Universal exploit so many IPs: Harry Potter, Marvel, Transformers, Simpsons, Jurassic Park, Kong, uhh... Fast and Furious (lolol).

I think Disney knows there are certain situations where an IP isn't necessary (somewhat recent history includes Everest, Soarin, Test Track 2, Mission Space), but they also know that taking advantage of a property/franchise is smart (Harry Potter single handedly put Universal back on the map, and magic wands and butterbeer sales could solve the economic problems of a small nation). Attractions like Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, and Star Tours are wildly successful E-tickets "despite" being based on various properties.

Disney has always understood there's a need for a mix. While I can't think of anything that's a 100% perfect fit for Fontierland, Disney doesn't have a habit of using wildly inappropriate themes. I hear you screaming "BUTOMGFROZEN," but like it or not, it's not a wildly inappropriate theme for Scandanavia (of which Norway is a part). Now, whether or not it's a fit for World Showcase can be debated, but we can do that in the proper thread, until a polar bear gets tired of standing on two legs. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor? Okay, a pretty odd fit. It's not futuristic or Sci-Fi, but it's also not obtrusive (Imagine if there was a Monstropolis in the middle of Tomorrowland... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about that they simply don't do).

So sometimes the attraction itself isn't ideally suited, but Disney is always respectful of the facades and outward appearance so as to prevent terribly jarring juxtapositions. To me, that's the one thing that MK has always tried to avoid, Splash Mountain not withstanding cuz that thing be a bit out of place in Frontierland but whateva it's awesome.

My point here is that I think we need to just wait until there's something announced before we worry about whether there will be an IP in the proposed attraction or not. Disney parks are the best theme parks in the world, and they're under much more intense scrutiny than the Universal parks down the street. Universal makes every single attraction themed to an IP, and they don't have to worry much about inappropriate themes. An attraction doesn't fit for a land? No problem. Tear down Jaws and build a new land. Don't have enough room for Harry Potter at IOA? No problem. Re-theme every single attraction and restaurant in an entire land (Merlinwood) to Harry Potter. They don't have 40+ years of history to respect. Disney can't just re-theme Frontierland to an IP that has similar architecture, because 40 years of history stands in the way. People are so much harsher on Disney's thematic choices than any other park in the world.

This is the trouble Disney has at the MK. It's a bit easier at DHS, because it's a movies-themed park. Almost anything goes (like at Universal/IOA).

But anyway, I have my doubts that Disney will use a big name IP for a potential Frontierland attraction. There really aren't too many wildly popular IPs that would make any sense. With Toy Story attractions already existing in two places (DHS, Tomorrowland), I doubt they're going to put it in Frontierland. It's just ... why? They don't need to further capitalize on Toy Story (or Pixar in general, especially with Pixarland on the way).

I don't discount, however, that they might use a lesser known IP for Frontierland, the same way they did with Splash Mountain 20+ years ago. A cartoony attraction, perhaps? It would be completely at home next to Splash, Big Thunder, and Country Bears. Maybe a Mickey Mouse (or Steamboat Willy) themed old west ride? I don't think it'll happen, but it could, and it would be totally appropriate when looking at the tone of the surrounding attractions.

 

[jt04]

With the plethora of successful IP that Disney now has (Lucasfilm/Star Wars/Indy, Pixar, a resurgent Disney Animation Studio, tons of classic animated and live action films), I'm sure it's hard for them to watch Universal exploit so many IPs: Harry Potter, Marvel, Transformers, Simpsons, Jurassic Park, Kong, uhh... Fast and Furious (lolol).

I think Disney knows there are certain situations where an IP isn't necessary (somewhat recent history includes Everest, Soarin, Test Track 2, Mission Space), but they also know that taking advantage of a property/franchise is smart (Harry Potter single handedly put Universal back on the map, and magic wands and butterbeer sales could solve the economic problems of a small nation). Attractions like Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, and Star Tours are wildly successful E-tickets "despite" being based on various properties.

Disney has always understood there's a need for a mix. While I can't think of anything that's a 100% perfect fit for Fontierland, Disney doesn't have a habit of using wildly inappropriate themes. I hear you screaming "BUTOMGFROZEN," but like it or not, it's not a wildly inappropriate theme for Scandanavia (of which Norway is a part). Now, whether or not it's a fit for World Showcase can be debated, but we can do that in the proper thread, until a polar bear gets tired of standing on two legs. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor? Okay, a pretty odd fit. It's not futuristic or Sci-Fi, but it's also not obtrusive (Imagine if there was a Monstropolis in the middle of Tomorrowland... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about that they simply don't do).

So sometimes the attraction itself isn't ideally suited, but Disney is always respectful of the facades and outward appearance so as to prevent terribly jarring juxtapositions. To me, that's the one thing that MK has always tried to avoid, Splash Mountain not withstanding cuz that thing be a bit out of place in Frontierland but whateva it's awesome.

My point here is that I think we need to just wait until there's something announced before we worry about whether there will be an IP in the proposed attraction or not. Disney parks are the best theme parks in the world, and they're under much more intense scrutiny than the Universal parks down the street. Universal makes every single attraction themed to an IP, and they don't have to worry much about inappropriate themes. An attraction doesn't fit for a land? No problem. Tear down Jaws and build a new land. Don't have enough room for Harry Potter at IOA? No problem. Re-theme every single attraction and restaurant in an entire land (Merlinwood) to Harry Potter. They don't have 40+ years of history to respect. Disney can't just re-theme Frontierland to an IP that has similar architecture, because 40 years of history stands in the way. People are so much harsher on Disney's thematic choices than any other park in the world.

This is the trouble Disney has at the MK. It's a bit easier at DHS, because it's a movies-themed park. Almost anything goes (like at Universal/IOA).

But anyway, I have my doubts that Disney will use a big name IP for a potential Frontierland attraction. There really aren't too many wildly popular IPs that would make any sense. With Toy Story attractions already existing in two places (DHS, Tomorrowland), I doubt they're going to put it in Frontierland. It's just ... why? They don't need to further capitalize on Toy Story (or Pixar in general, especially with Pixarland on the way).

I don't discount, however, that they might use a lesser known IP for Frontierland, the same way they did with Splash Mountain 20+ years ago. A cartoony attraction, perhaps? It would be completely at home next to Splash, Big Thunder, and Country Bears. Maybe a Mickey Mouse (or Steamboat Willy) themed old west ride? I don't think it'll happen, but it could, and it would be totally appropriate when looking at the tone of the surrounding attractions.

I wouldn't mind a Pixar overlay of Splash as long as they removed the current facade and made it fit the land. The ride system could still be used. I wouldn't be suprised to see something original behind BTM with an IP that is also brand new. Maybe even a new Marvel-ous concept. Who knows?

 

[dizneycrazy09]

I wouldn't mind a Pixar overlay of Splash as long as they removed the current facade and made it fit the land. The ride system could still be used. I wouldn't be suprised to see something original behind BTM with an IP that is also brand new. Maybe even a new Marvel-ous concept. Who knows?

...Either you're trying to be funny or ruffle people's feathers. Or both?

I can say with certainty that Splash will never be re-themed to Pixar and Marvel will never be represented in the swampiest of MK's. If ever I'm proven wrong, I'll eat my hat.

 

[FitzCats]

With the plethora of successful IP that Disney now has (Lucasfilm/Star Wars/Indy, Pixar, a resurgent Disney Animation Studio, tons of classic animated and live action films), I'm sure it's hard for them to watch Universal exploit so many IPs: Harry Potter, Marvel, Transformers, Simpsons, Jurassic Park, Kong, uhh... Fast and Furious (lolol).

I think Disney knows there are certain situations where an IP isn't necessary (somewhat recent history includes Everest, Soarin, Test Track 2, Mission Space), but they also know that taking advantage of a property/franchise is smart (Harry Potter single handedly put Universal back on the map, and magic wands and butterbeer sales could solve the economic problems of a small nation). Attractions like Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, and Star Tours are wildly successful E-tickets "despite" being based on various properties.

Disney has always understood there's a need for a mix. While I can't think of anything that's a 100% perfect fit for Fontierland, Disney doesn't have a habit of using wildly inappropriate themes. I hear you screaming "BUTOMGFROZEN," but like it or not, it's not a wildly inappropriate theme for Scandanavia (of which Norway is a part). Now, whether or not it's a fit for World Showcase can be debated, but we can do that in the proper thread, until a polar bear gets tired of standing on two legs. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor? Okay, a pretty odd fit. It's not futuristic or Sci-Fi, but it's also not obtrusive (Imagine if there was a Monstropolis in the middle of Tomorrowland... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about that they simply don't do).

So sometimes the attraction itself isn't ideally suited, but Disney is always respectful of the facades and outward appearance so as to prevent terribly jarring juxtapositions. To me, that's the one thing that MK has always tried to avoid, Splash Mountain not withstanding cuz that thing be a bit out of place in Frontierland but whateva it's awesome.

My point here is that I think we need to just wait until there's something announced before we worry about whether there will be an IP in the proposed attraction or not. Disney parks are the best theme parks in the world, and they're under much more intense scrutiny than the Universal parks down the street. Universal makes every single attraction themed to an IP, and they don't have to worry much about inappropriate themes. An attraction doesn't fit for a land? No problem. Tear down Jaws and build a new land. Don't have enough room for Harry Potter at IOA? No problem. Re-theme every single attraction and restaurant in an entire land (Merlinwood) to Harry Potter. They don't have 40+ years of history to respect. Disney can't just re-theme Frontierland to an IP that has similar architecture, because 40 years of history stands in the way. People are so much harsher on Disney's thematic choices than any other park in the world.

This is the trouble Disney has at the MK. It's a bit easier at DHS, because it's a movies-themed park. Almost anything goes (like at Universal/IOA).

But anyway, I have my doubts that Disney will use a big name IP for a potential Frontierland attraction. There really aren't too many wildly popular IPs that would make any sense. With Toy Story attractions already existing in two places (DHS, Tomorrowland), I doubt they're going to put it in Frontierland. It's just ... why? They don't need to further capitalize on Toy Story (or Pixar in general, especially with Pixarland on the way).

I don't discount, however, that they might use a lesser known IP for Frontierland, the same way they did with Splash Mountain 20+ years ago. A cartoony attraction, perhaps? It would be completely at home next to Splash, Big Thunder, and Country Bears. Maybe a Mickey Mouse (or Steamboat Willy) themed old west ride? I don't think it'll happen, but it could, and it would be totally appropriate when looking at the tone of the surrounding attractions.

I agree with most of the points you make here, and honestly, I think I would be completely ok and very intrigued if they decided to build attraction on some obscure IP. Obviously Disney's collection and range of IP is massive and I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with all of it, but to the average park goer, there is little difference between an obscure IP and non-IP attraction. I'm doubtful that many of the typical guests know what IP Splash utilizes, or even that Splash uses an IP. So from a marketing stand point, using obscure IP and having a non-IP attraction are probably nearly equivalent.

I'd much rather Disney make a ride utilizing obscure IP than going the Frozen route. While yes, Frozen takes place in Scandinavia and Norway is part of Scandinavia, there is still substantial thematic disconnect. What I fear most would be a copy of Radiator Springs Racers or something Cars related. I feel that Cars to Frontierland is in a similar vein as Frozen to Norway and given the merchandising success of Cars, as well as the success of Carsland at DCA, that would seem like an intriguing choice if I'm a Disney exec.

 

[Clowd Nyne]

Just as long as it isn't a Home on the Range attraction I'm good

 

[Clowd Nyne]

I wouldn't mind a Pixar overlay of Splash as long as they removed the current facade and made it fit the land. The ride system could still be used. I wouldn't be suprised to see something original behind BTM with an IP that is also brand new. Maybe even a new Marvel-ous concept. Who knows?

No

 

[lazyboy97o]

With the plethora of successful IP that Disney now has (Lucasfilm/Star Wars/Indy, Pixar, a resurgent Disney Animation Studio, tons of classic animated and live action films), I'm sure it's hard for them to watch Universal exploit so many IPs: Harry Potter, Marvel, Transformers, Simpsons, Jurassic Park, Kong, uhh... Fast and Furious (lolol).

I think Disney knows there are certain situations where an IP isn't necessary (somewhat recent history includes Everest, Soarin, Test Track 2, Mission Space), but they also know that taking advantage of a property/franchise is smart (Harry Potter single handedly put Universal back on the map, and magic wands and butterbeer sales could solve the economic problems of a small nation). Attractions like Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, and Star Tours are wildly successful E-tickets "despite" being based on various properties.

Disney has always understood there's a need for a mix. While I can't think of anything that's a 100% perfect fit for Fontierland, Disney doesn't have a habit of using wildly inappropriate themes. I hear you screaming "BUTOMGFROZEN," but like it or not, it's not a wildly inappropriate theme for Scandanavia (of which Norway is a part). Now, whether or not it's a fit for World Showcase can be debated, but we can do that in the proper thread, until a polar bear gets tired of standing on two legs. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor? Okay, a pretty odd fit. It's not futuristic or Sci-Fi, but it's also not obtrusive (Imagine if there was a Monstropolis in the middle of Tomorrowland... that's the kind of thing I'm talking about that they simply don't do).

So sometimes the attraction itself isn't ideally suited, but Disney is always respectful of the facades and outward appearance so as to prevent terribly jarring juxtapositions. To me, that's the one thing that MK has always tried to avoid, Splash Mountain not withstanding cuz that thing be a bit out of place in Frontierland but whateva it's awesome.

My point here is that I think we need to just wait until there's something announced before we worry about whether there will be an IP in the proposed attraction or not. Disney parks are the best theme parks in the world, and they're under much more intense scrutiny than the Universal parks down the street. Universal makes every single attraction themed to an IP, and they don't have to worry much about inappropriate themes. An attraction doesn't fit for a land? No problem. Tear down Jaws and build a new land. Don't have enough room for Harry Potter at IOA? No problem. Re-theme every single attraction and restaurant in an entire land (Merlinwood) to Harry Potter. They don't have 40+ years of history to respect. Disney can't just re-theme Frontierland to an IP that has similar architecture, because 40 years of history stands in the way. People are so much harsher on Disney's thematic choices than any other park in the world.

This is the trouble Disney has at the MK. It's a bit easier at DHS, because it's a movies-themed park. Almost anything goes (like at Universal/IOA).

But anyway, I have my doubts that Disney will use a big name IP for a potential Frontierland attraction. There really aren't too many wildly popular IPs that would make any sense. With Toy Story attractions already existing in two places (DHS, Tomorrowland), I doubt they're going to put it in Frontierland. It's just ... why? They don't need to further capitalize on Toy Story (or Pixar in general, especially with Pixarland on the way).

I don't discount, however, that they might use a lesser known IP for Frontierland, the same way they did with Splash Mountain 20+ years ago. A cartoony attraction, perhaps? It would be completely at home next to Splash, Big Thunder, and Country Bears. Maybe a Mickey Mouse (or Steamboat Willy) themed old west ride? I don't think it'll happen, but it could, and it would be totally appropriate when looking at the tone of the surrounding attractions.

Disney's current leadership has publicly dismissed the role of non-franchises in the parks. There is no longer a notion of a mix (itself already a watering down of the past emphasis on original attractions). That is why people are worried.

 

[NearTheEars]

I wouldn't mind a Pixar overlay of Splash as long as they removed the current facade and made it fit the land. The ride system could still be used. I wouldn't be suprised to see something original behind BTM with an IP that is also brand new. Maybe even a new Marvel-ous concept. Who knows?

Why are we talking about fixing the things that aren't broke, instead of the ones that are.
Splash isn't changing, and you don't need any special spirited connections to know that.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Although somewhat obscure, Disney has its American Legends series. Pecos Bill manages to retain his tall tale inn and cafe. Perhaps a Johnny Appleseed, Paul Bunyan or John Henry attraction would fit well. Pecos Bill did lasso and ride a twister; it is a storyline with potential.

 

[Kman101]

Must be nice to have so much time on your hands to post nonsense. I don't even see the posts and I know who the usual suspect is. Can we stop?

 

[bakntime]

Disney's current leadership has publicly dismissed the role of non-franchises in the parks. There is no longer a notion of a mix (itself already a watering down of the past emphasis on original attractions). That is why people are worried.

I think we need to wait and see what actually happens before we go by what they have or haven't dismissed.

But either way, whether the "theme/story" was already imagined ahead of time by a creative mind before the attraction is built (Star Tours, Splash Mountain, Tower of Terror, Avatar Land), or if it's imagined up for the purpose of an attraction (Soarin, Expedition Everest), the end result is the same to me: If the attraction was well executed, it's fun, and if it wasn't well executed, it's probably not.

The fact that Disney sees a successful business model over at Universal+IOA (where every single last attraction is based on existing properties), Disney would be idiots not to take advantage of their own ridiculous quantity of successful IPs they have access to.

I'd much rather Disney make a ride utilizing obscure IP than going the Frozen route. While yes, Frozen takes place in Scandinavia and Norway is part of Scandinavia, there is still substantial thematic disconnect.

I agree completely. If you're asking my opinion, I have very little outright interest in a Frozen attraction at all, regardless of where it goes. But the movie is actually good. It was so popular that some people have actually underrated it just for that fact alone. I liked the themes, I liked the music (yes, Let It Go is a decent song).

I don't know if I agree about a substantial thematic disconnect, as Maelstrom was already a fairy tale, albeit a darker one. It had trolls and magic spells and backwards water flumes. I get that it was an extension of Norse/Norwegian mythology and culture, but it still always felt cartoony to me. It remains to be seen how much, if at all, Disney will try and tie in Scandinavian culture into the preshow, scenery, etc. I'm thinking there's still a chance for little Scandinavian flavor, so that at least I don't feel like I was kicked in the marbles.

(ugh, sorry, I forgot what thread I'm in and didn't really mean to go so far off topic, if anyone wants to reply to this, please do copy my comment into the Frozen attraction thread and we can continue that aspect of this discussion there)

What I fear most would be a copy of Radiator Springs Racers or something Cars related. I feel that Cars to Frontierland is in a similar vein as Frozen to Norway and given the merchandising success of Cars, as well as the success of Carsland at DCA, that would seem like an intriguing choice if I'm a Disney exec.

I promise you Cars will not show up in Frontierland. I really promise you. If you see anything Cars related at MK (I highly doubt it), it would only ever be at the Speedway ("move" the attraction into Fantasyland with some creativity of scenery). But I've said it before and I'll say it again, Disney may be hot to trot on IPs and franchises, especially after watching Harry Potter steal their thunder, but they are not going to obtrusively destroy a theme like Frontierland with something like Cars. It's too big to "hide". Splash Mountain was as far as you'll see them stray from Frontierland's roots. Monsters Inc in Tomorrowland? Doesn't fit there, but again, when you walk around Tomrrowland, nobody is having a heart attack over it. Frozen in World Showcase? Doesn't quite belong there, but when you walk by, you won't see Elsa's ice palace towering over World Showcase (sweet Grammi Gummi, I hope they don't have plans for that, do they?). Frozen will somewhat peacefully exist inside Norway's architecture. You won't have to avert your eyes or camera lenses every time you take a panoramic photo.

But Cars racing around Frontierland? I know some people are convinced the Disney heads are about 2 degrees above demonic specters, but I just simply promise you they're not that obtuse. Radiator Springs will not appear in Frontierland. There are no Cars in the Frontier, and there won't ever be. Logs, singing rabbits, and singing bears? Ok. But there will be no automobiles, ever.

 

[Kman101]

I still feel like we're getting Woody's Roundup here. I know people are saying that because DHS is getting a Playland and that was rumored to be based around Woody more but plans clearly could have changed. I think that sort of expansion isn't really needed for the MK but with the crowds I guess they do need more things for people to do. Although whylightbulb said it would be an E. But isn't this the same company that wanted to tout Dwarfs Mine train and Mermaid as E's?

 

[chiefs11]

But Cars racing around Frontierland? I know some people are convinced the Disney heads are about 2 degrees above demonic specters, but I just simply promise you they're not that obtuse. Radiator Springs will not appear in Frontierland. There are no Cars in the Frontier, and there won't ever be. Logs, singing rabbits, and singing bears? Ok. But there will be no automobiles, ever.

I agree Cars wouldn't be in Frontierland....but the rock work could transition to a new Cars land behind BTM, as an entirely separate land. I certainly don't expect anything of the sort, but it could work.

I agree with the other posters, and expect something like Woody's roundup. meh.

 

[FitzCats]

I agree Cars wouldn't be in Frontierland....but the rock work could transition to a new Cars land behind BTM, as an entirely separate land. I certainly don't expect anything of the sort, but it could work.

I guess that's more what I was envisioning. So if this is truly a Frontierland expansion, then I can see how Cars doesn't fit at all. Obviously these are all rumors at this point, but are we sure this is only an expansion of a current themed area (I mean based on what those "in the know" have said)? Not saying Cars would be logical at all, but just a thought since the money rumored to be headed to the MK seems pretty substantial for something along the lines of Woody's Roundup.

 

[bakntime]

I agree Cars wouldn't be in Frontierland....but the rock work could transition to a new Cars land behind BTM, as an entirely separate land. I certainly don't expect anything of the sort, but it could work.

I suppose that's slightly more plausible, but considering that MK is a land of "general" themes (Adventure, Tomorrow, Fantasy), I'm going to go ahead and trust that "Cars Land" just isn't in their thinking for MK whatsoever.

I agree with the other posters, and expect something like Woody's roundup. meh.

While I obviously can't rule anything out (I don't have any insider sources), I just have this feeling it won't be. It's not even that it would be the worst fit, because honestly, it's a better fit than Splash Mountain. I think with Toy Story / Pixar being expanded at DHS, they won't add more of it.

 

[bakntime]

I guess that's more what I was envisioning. So if this is truly a Frontierland expansion, then I can see how Cars doesn't fit at all. Obviously these are all rumors at this point, but are we sure this is only an expansion of a current themed area (I mean based on what those "in the know" have said)? Not saying Cars would be logical at all, but just a thought since the money rumored to be headed to the MK seems pretty substantial for something along the lines of Woody's Roundup.

Call me crazy, I actually think they could turn Woody's Roundup into a heck of a ride. I'm thinking along the lines of Paris' Ratatouille, but themed to a train chase like in TS3 along with some old west drama like in the Woody's Roundup TV show in TS2. Again, not that I think it's likely, because Toy Story and Pixar are already well represented, but I certainly wouldn't hate it if they did it right. The Woody's Roundup show is just a for-children spoof of classic Western TV shows. It's like a TV version of the old cowboy radio dramas. I think there's plenty of potential there, especially if people can find a way to get over the fact that it's themed to Pixar, rather than being purely Western themed like Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland or the somehow-for-some-reason-beloved concept of Western River Expedition.

 

[Mickey_777]

I wouldn't mind Woody's Round up or even something based on the Lone Ranger (unlikely) to be honest with you. Ip's don't bother me as long as it's done well.