TAFI Town Hall

[spacemt354]

I am going one step further and saying there should be no set schedule at all. It helped the first half of this year, but hs caused problems with SA.

As noted, the reason JDM is accelrating eliminations and challenges is that he agreed to shorten the comp so Matt could have time for his afterwards.

If we just said "who cares", there is no need.

Upcoming events can be presented by the host to the group doing the newsletter the month or so before so that people know what is coming (no voting, no submission process, a free for all)

Its a fluid adminitrative process that allows JDM to run SA as long as he wants (same as Tiki, who generally ran SYWTBAI for extremely long periods as I understand it), and for hosts to decide their own formats for eliminations and challenge lengths without having to try and conform to a three month or 8 week block.

If we have six comps going at the same time, who cares? Though, as a host, I may want to wait if I am going up against a large sign up comp simply so I can leech people as they et elininated, but that is something that not only is common sense, but that can be worked out amongst the comp hosts hat are running comps at that time on their own.

Basically, lets say JDM, Tiki and Sam are all running comps at the same time, and I want to run one. I send then a PM and say "hey guys, Id like to run a rated comp as well, I am thinking it will have 10 People and last 5 weeks. I plan to announce first week of July.

Are you cool with that?

JDM may come back and say "sure, but can you wait until the third week of July? Because Im starting up mone that week.

Conversation ensues until they all agree (no controlling body, just the people who are directly impacted.)

Then, after they agree, I send a PM to IDI and RM who are doing thte newsletter that month with a writeup of my comp and a brief outline so they can plop it into the newsletter.

Basically it becomes a fluid organization with no strigent or set rules with the exception of:

1) there needs to be a point system agreed upon
2) there will be a year end finale comp because it is fun
3) there will be year end awards
4) there will be a group of volunteers, cycling monthly or whatever, to track the points and craft a newsletter

Simple, inclusive and easy to adminisrate.

All of this. Totally agree.

 

[Zweiland]

This is my thought process too.

Just need fluid communication. For newer members who come here not knowing much about the community, if one of the active members just says "hey welcome, jokers is running a comp as well maybe just talk to him to try and work out a schedule so both of your comps can run successfully)

Something like that.

So a case-by-case basis, with no government, no politics, no rules, no regulations?

I like the sound of that.

 

[RMichael21]

The second thing that happened was @IDInstitute or @RMichael21 (sorry guys, I can't remember which) got the thread limit increased from 5 to 10. Not for the Convos. He actually approached Steve about it well before for a different reason. But, as we had your group merging in, we thought, why not? Larger group, larger voice, more ideas, better representation of the community at large.

Yep, I did that so my TSI PMs could hold everyone from each tribe.

 

[Voxel]

All this serious talk needs more Seriousness

 

[DSquared]

Looks like we're all in agreement with the system

 

[Zweiland]

Looks like we're all in agreement with the system

Those of us who are here, anyway.

Though many of us want to move away from elections, this is kind of something we should make sure the majority wants to implement.

 

[englanddg]

This is my thought process too.

Just need fluid communication. For newer members who come here not knowing much about the community, if one of the active members just says "hey welcome, jokers is running a comp as well maybe just talk to him to try and work out a schedule so both of your comps can run successfully)

Something like that.

I would take that a step further as well. Simply modify the FAQ page (which we discussed in the convos several times) with a few things:

1) What is a competition?
<insert a few sentences>
2) How do they work?
<insert a few sentences>

3) How can I host one?
Simply come up with an idea and create a new thread. To make it easy to search and sort, we suggest ask that you put COMP - at the beginning of your thread. You may also wish to create a separate discussion thread for your comp. To make that easy to search, we suggest that you put COMPD - at the beginning of your thread title. (I dunno, that just popped in my head based on the point Joker made about oversaturation and comp threads dominating the board, a little tag like that would help people separate comp threads from non-comp threads)

4) What does "rated" vs "non-rated" mean?
<insert description of rating system>

5) If I want to start a rated comp, how should I do it?
<Insert Zweilands thing about how the comp should be planned and discussed among the coming comp hosts a few months prior so that it can be both announced and anticipated...otherwise, it's free for all if you do those things. Also insert the rating formula so you know how many points your comp is worth. Hosts decide how points are allocated, and hosts report point standings to the newsletter group.>

6) What happens if something comes up and I can't finish a comp I started?
You have two choices. Either you abandon the comp, and if that happens, you will need to allocate any remaining points amongst the remaining players evenly, an we ask that you please announce this before abandoning the comp so that others who are interested in starting up their own know that this may be a good time.

Or, you can appoint a replacement host of your choice to finish the comp for you.

6) What is the newsletter?
<Brief description of the newsletter>

7) If I want to participate in the newsletter, or submit an idea, how do I do that?
Monthly the group will be refreshed. Sign ups will happen on the second week of the month, with the thread being created by the current newsletter group. Up to 10 people may join the newsletter team, but it is first come first serve sign ups, so keep your eyes peeled for that thread!

Anyone may submit content to the newsletter as they see fit, but the newsletter group has final say in what makes the cut to keep the newsletter from getting too cluttered and to be sure that important information (upcoming comps and important dates, etc, don't get lost in the fray)

Newsletter topics can range from people who have their own threads (like the Epcot Manifesto), ideas for new comps that people would like to have discussed in general, announced comps, tips and tricks, etc.)

(this idea was something that RM, IDI and I had already discussed for a bit in the newsletter thread...)

8) Whatever else we can think of.

That should pretty much cover it. And, then it's there for all to see anytime, and the messaging is consistant (instead of a new person asking me something and I say something different than say, what Space says...) Rather, we both say "Hey, go read the FAQ page, and let us know if you have any questions."

The community can update the FAQ page as things change on the whim, but it becomes the defacto one stop shop for community "procedures", which I again suggest we should keep as minimal as possible

 

[spacemt354]

I would take that a step further as well. Simply modify the FAQ page (which we discussed in the convos several times) with a few things:

1) What is a competition?
<insert a few sentences>
2) How do they work?
<insert a few sentences>

3) How can I host one?
Simply come up with an idea and create a new thread. To make it easy to search and sort, we suggest ask that you put COMP - at the beginning of your thread. You may also wish to create a separate discussion thread for your comp. To make that easy to search, we suggest that you put COMPD - at the beginning of your thread title. (I dunno, that just popped in my head based on the point Joker made about oversaturation and comp threads dominating the board, a little tag like that would help people separate comp threads from non-comp threads)

4) What does "rated" vs "non-rated" mean?
<insert description of rating system>

5) If I want to start a rated comp, how should I do it?
<Insert Zweilands thing about how the comp should be planned and discussed among the coming comp hosts a few months prior so that it can be both announced and anticipated...otherwise, it's free for all if you do those things. Also insert the rating formula so you know how many points your comp is worth. Hosts decide how points are allocated, and hosts report point standings to the newsletter group.>

6) What happens if something comes up and I can't finish a comp I started?
You have two choices. Either you abandon the comp, and if that happens, you will need to allocate any remaining points amongst the remaining players evenly, an we ask that you please announce this before abandoning the comp so that others who are interested in starting up their own know that this may be a good time.

Or, you can appoint a replacement host of your choice to finish the comp for you.

6) What is the newsletter?
<Brief description of the newsletter>

7) If I want to participate in the newsletter, or submit an idea, how do I do that?
Monthly the group will be refreshed. Sign ups will happen on the second week of the month, with the thread being created by the current newsletter group. Up to 10 people may join the newsletter team, but it is first come first serve sign ups, so keep your eyes peeled for that thread!

Anyone may submit content to the newsletter as they see fit, but the newsletter group has final say in what makes the cut to keep the newsletter from getting too cluttered and to be sure that important information (upcoming comps and important dates, etc, don't get lost in the fray)

Newsletter topics can range from people who have their own threads (like the Epcot Manifesto), ideas for new comps that people would like to have discussed in general, announced comps, tips and tricks, etc.)

(this idea was something that RM, IDI and I had already discussed for a bit in the newsletter thread...)

8) Whatever else we can think of.

That should pretty much cover it. And, then it's there for all to see anytime, and the messaging is consistant (instead of a new person asking me something and I say something different than say, what Space says...) Rather, we both say "Hey, go read the FAQ page, and let us know if you have any questions."

The community can update the FAQ page as things change on the whim, but it becomes the defacto one stop shop for community "procedures", which I again suggest we should keep as minimal as possible

This is great. When I'm not out I can better disect this, but a general outline like this would be just what we need.

All questions answered and all the "rules" are accomadating to everyone

There's not really a hierarchy but more of a community...I like it.

 

[Sam Magic]

I would take that a step further as well. Simply modify the FAQ page (which we discussed in the convos several times) with a few things:

1) What is a competition?
<insert a few sentences>
2) How do they work?
<insert a few sentences>

3) How can I host one?
Simply come up with an idea and create a new thread. To make it easy to search and sort, we suggest ask that you put COMP - at the beginning of your thread. You may also wish to create a separate discussion thread for your comp. To make that easy to search, we suggest that you put COMPD - at the beginning of your thread title. (I dunno, that just popped in my head based on the point Joker made about oversaturation and comp threads dominating the board, a little tag like that would help people separate comp threads from non-comp threads)

4) What does "rated" vs "non-rated" mean?
<insert description of rating system>

5) If I want to start a rated comp, how should I do it?
<Insert Zweilands thing about how the comp should be planned and discussed among the coming comp hosts a few months prior so that it can be both announced and anticipated...otherwise, it's free for all if you do those things. Also insert the rating formula so you know how many points your comp is worth. Hosts decide how points are allocated, and hosts report point standings to the newsletter group.>

6) What happens if something comes up and I can't finish a comp I started?
You have two choices. Either you abandon the comp, and if that happens, you will need to allocate any remaining points amongst the remaining players evenly, an we ask that you please announce this before abandoning the comp so that others who are interested in starting up their own know that this may be a good time.

Or, you can appoint a replacement host of your choice to finish the comp for you.

6) What is the newsletter?
<Brief description of the newsletter>

7) If I want to participate in the newsletter, or submit an idea, how do I do that?
Monthly the group will be refreshed. Sign ups will happen on the second week of the month, with the thread being created by the current newsletter group. Up to 10 people may join the newsletter team, but it is first come first serve sign ups, so keep your eyes peeled for that thread!

Anyone may submit content to the newsletter as they see fit, but the newsletter group has final say in what makes the cut to keep the newsletter from getting too cluttered and to be sure that important information (upcoming comps and important dates, etc, don't get lost in the fray)

Newsletter topics can range from people who have their own threads (like the Epcot Manifesto), ideas for new comps that people would like to have discussed in general, announced comps, tips and tricks, etc.)

(this idea was something that RM, IDI and I had already discussed for a bit in the newsletter thread...)

8) Whatever else we can think of.

That should pretty much cover it. And, then it's there for all to see anytime, and the messaging is consistant (instead of a new person asking me something and I say something different than say, what Space says...) Rather, we both say "Hey, go read the FAQ page, and let us know if you have any questions."

The community can update the FAQ page as things change on the whim, but it becomes the defacto one stop shop for community "procedures", which I again suggest we should keep as minimal as possible

This.

I honestly love the idea of creating a set of rules and guidelines for the comps. No politics, no elections, no conversationalists.

However...I do fear that if a judge drops from a competition there is nothing we could do. No group of people that could step in and finish it up or formally conclude it. I'm also worried that someone may want to start a competition and not contact other people that may be hosting, I recall that happening many times in 2013 after WED's Think Different. About four people all wanted to host a major contest at the same time as Jdms, granted the community was smaller back then, but it still caused problems of who gets to go.

I think this brings up another problem...If we look at the contests many people want to host, they typically are big contests like SA. I don't think that it really works to have more than two major competitions running at the same time...and even two could be a stretch. What if we put in the rules that only two major contests can be hosted at a time to avoid this issue?

I do think though that having a group of people to run the end of year contests, award nominations would be good. A small group of maybe five people that is put together in August and lasts till January after the awards. Changes every year...could be nominal elections or volunteer.

 

[Zweiland]

I think this brings up another problem...If we look at the contests many people want to host, they typically are big contests like SA. I don't think that it really works to have more than two major competitions running at the same time...and even two could be a stretch. What if we put in the rules that only two major contests can be hosted at a time to avoid this issue?

If we go by @englanddg's idea, it's really not our place to stop that from happening. This would have to be sorted out between the hosts.

I do think though that having a group of people to run the end of year contests, award nominations would be good. A small group of maybe five people that is put together in August and lasts till January after the awards. Changes every year...could be nominal elections or volunteer.

I think less than 5 people are required. Maybe 3.

 

[spacemt354]

I think less than 5 people are required. Maybe 3.

Yeah and if we go with that, the people who run it, like last year, are people who have decided to not compete in the end of year comp.

 

[englanddg]

This.

I honestly love the idea of creating a set of rules and guidelines for the comps. No politics, no elections, no conversationalists.

However...I do fear that if a judge drops from a competition there is nothing we could do. No group of people that could step in and finish it up or formally conclude it. I'm also worried that someone may want to start a competition and not contact other people that may be hosting, I recall that happening many times in 2013 after WED's Think Different. About four people all wanted to host a major contest at the same time as Jdms, granted the community was smaller back then, but it still caused problems of who gets to go.

I think this brings up another problem...If we look at the contests many people want to host, they typically are big contests like SA. I don't think that it really works to have more than two major competitions running at the same time...and even two could be a stretch. What if we put in the rules that only two major contests can be hosted at a time to avoid this issue?

I do think though that having a group of people to run the end of year contests, award nominations would be good. A small group of maybe five people that is put together in August and lasts till January after the awards. Changes every year...could be nominal elections or volunteer.

And now you are starting (though you haven't gotten there yet, I'll wait for it) back to why we had the Conversationalists in the first place.

I say, if that's going to cause a problem and be confusing or seem like a "clique" to new members (and this is really something for people who haven't been here for 2+ years like some of us have to answer), then we scrap it entirely.

If two hosts have an issue, at least it's a spat between the two hosts, not the community at large. Let them work it out between themselves. But, rather than trying to create a structure to prevent conflict, lets just have a clear idea of what to do when it does happen (it will happen, dunno when, maybe not for a year or more, but it will happen). Basically, that idea is...you guys figure it out (the comp hosts).

I have had these discussions (how to organize) with various people, including you, for going on nearly 2.5 years now, and we seem to always end up right back where we started. I do not want to sit here in 6 or 8 months when we have a new influx of new people (like Space and others have recently come into the fold) and have this same conversation again.

We end it, we agree upon it, and we move forward.

As far as end of year, sure, we can make that a end of year comittee sort of thing. Sortof like a Homecoming Committee (or whatever group it is that plans out high school dances). Not a government thing at all, merely just create a nomination thread, and hold a quick election, pick 3 - 5 people, be done with it.

Really there isn't much to it.

1 Person probably should do a video and the awards presentations (like you did last year Sam)
1 Person should be in charge of hosting Elite 8 and or Sweet 16 or whatever it is
1 Person just to help the other two out and be in charge of the awards nominations and voting threads

 

[englanddg]

Yeah and if we go with that, the people who run it, like last year, are people who have decided to not compete in the end of year comp.

Last year it was LG for the nomination and voting threads, Sam did the final "awards presentation" and Zwei ran the comp. So, yeah.

The only part (and I'd have to go look it up, cause I'm pretty sure it was a public thread) that the convos had any "say" in was brainstorming neat ideas for awards so that way there was enough of a range that lots of people got nods and attention for various aspect.

We had something like a dozen different awards ranging from best artwork, best team, best artist, best overall proposal, best non-comp proposal thread, etc...

 

[Zweiland]

Building on what others have said, let me try to make a list of everything 'official' related to the ICS that will NOT be done in public, and who will do it.

-Discussion between hosts who want to have their competitions at the same time, to try to resolve the conflict (this can be done publicly also)
-Monthly/bi-monthly "newsletter": a group of 5 or so people
-Final competition/award show/nominations: a group of 3 people

Can anyone think of anything else?

 

[englanddg]

Building on what others have said, let me try to make a list of everything 'official' related to the ICS that will NOT be done in public, and who will do it.

-Discussion between hosts who want to have their competitions at the same time, to try to resolve the conflict (this can be done publicly also)
-Monthly/bi-monthly "newsletter": a group of 5 or so people
-Final competition/award show/nominations: a group of 3 people

Can anyone think of anything else?

Nope, that's it. And, frankly all of that could be done publicly, but it's just a lot of clutter to have in the forum at large. Just like Judges in comps have PMs they share to keep their clutter off the threads (and why discussion threads were created for comps, to keep the clutter off the main threads).

I'd say the only time a host dispute would need to go public is if they can't figure it out on their own. And, in that respect, I think @JokersWild had the right attitude. Be mature about it, grow up, and either agree to disagree, or agree on something that works for both of you. But, all that should be private and professional, and ONLY involve them. If a third party is brought into the mediate, that's between the parties involved (the hosts), no other group.

 

[Zweiland]

Nope, that's it. And, frankly all of that could be done publicly, but it's just a lot of clutter to have in the forum at large. Just like Judges in comps have PMs they share to keep their clutter off the threads (and why discussion threads were created for comps, to keep the clutter off the main threads).

I'd say the only time a host dispute would need to go public is if they can't figure it out on their own. And, in that respect, I think @JokersWild had the right attitude. Be mature about it, grow up, and either agree to disagree, or agree on something that works for both of you. But, all that should be private and professional, and ONLY involve them. If a third party is brought into the mediate, that's between the parties involved (the hosts), no other group.

Well then, I'm in full support of this system.

There are other things that need to be discussed (points, end of year competition), but if no other concerns are raised about your idea by sometime soon, we should probably do a community vote to take it into effect.

 

[englanddg]

I suspect the vast majority of the conversations would go something like this though.

<englanddg wants to start a comp, comes up with a plan, sees what comps are currently running and/or are already announced to start in the newsletter>

<englanddg sends a PM to the three hosts of the three comps going on right now and the 1 comp that is supposed to start next month saying "hey guys, I want to start up a comp next month, and your comps will still be running and or starting. I was thinking about doing it the second week of next month. That's two weeks after your comp starts, Billybob, and right as 2 of these big comps start to slow down. Are you guys ok with that?">

Odds are.most won't care. Or, they'll say "sure, no problem, but I was thinking about doing something special for my comp on that week you are looking at that will bring back a lot of players...do you plan to start sign ups then, or rush straight to challenges?"

<conversation ensues>

 

[englanddg]

Well then, I'm in full support of this system.

There are other things that need to be discussed (points, end of year competition), but if no other concerns are raised about your idea by sometime soon, we should probably do a community vote to take it into effect.

It at least takes schedule off the table as a point of contention. So, that's a step forward.

 

[Sam Magic]

Last year it was LG for the nomination and voting threads, Sam did the final "awards presentation" and Zwei ran the comp. So, yeah.

The only part (and I'd have to go look it up, cause I'm pretty sure it was a public thread) that the convos had any "say" in was brainstorming neat ideas for awards so that way there was enough of a range that lots of people got nods and attention for various aspect.

We had something like a dozen different awards ranging from best artwork, best team, best artist, best overall proposal, best non-comp proposal thread, etc...

I actually ran the nomination and voting threads for the awards. LG did the Convo's election stuff.

 

[Sam Magic]

Well then, I'm in full support of this system.

There are other things that need to be discussed (points, end of year competition), but if no other concerns are raised about your idea by sometime soon, we should probably do a community vote to take it into effect.

I agree. This is the system for us.