Walt and Epcot

[Goofyernmost]

I don't see how it would be a "totalitarian state" any more than a large planned community with apartment style restrictions and homeowners associations (not saying they're GOOD, just saying we see the same kinds of restrictions today).

It would have been occupied by Disney cast members....much the same way that the CP and International Program CM's live on (or near) property right now anyway.

I suppose that the CM's would be a captive audience, but, I don't think that Walt's intention was to make it a company store type of setup. For one thing, it would have been a costly venture and the CM's for the most part would not have had the income to support themselves within it. I think the idea that it was for CM's is just another in a long line of daydreams that Disney fans have conjured up.

Think about it for yourself. You have a lot of cool "special" things supplied by industry to give you more time to enjoy life, yet, the hassle that is involved with just getting out of "town", kind of makes you captive unless you want to deal with many steps to get out. In the layout I didn't see many places for you to park your car. Maybe everything you need is in the "city". I can't speak for you, but, I know it wouldn't work for me.

Yes, I know that the idea of homeowner association are a bit over bearing as well, but, they are community based not city based. You have a choice of which one to buy into. Let's face it it was to be an elitist city. It would have been conform or get out. It had all kinds of good intentions, but, it had way to many questionable desires to keep the "riff raff" out and only the pure in and sheltered.

Who would have chosen the heads of government? I don't see anyplace where that is addressed in detail. Would it be an elective process and then what if the public decided to put a leader in place that was 180 degrees off the vision of Walt Disney as to how this would all work. Would Disney have veto power? I think that if they were supposed to control that environment to the degree that would be required, they would have total say in all of that stuff that we take for granted we control in our own communities.

Like I said, I do think that it was a noble idea with nothing but good intention, but, I am of a strong belief that it just wouldn't work. People are, for the most part, way to diverse to fit into a one size fits all, do as your told, type of living arrangement. A nice place to visit, but, I wouldn't want to live there.

 

[ChrisFL]

I suppose that the CM's would be a captive audience, but, I don't think that Walt's intention was to make it a company store type of setup. For one thing, it would have been a costly venture and the CM's for the most part would not have had the income to support themselves within it. I think the idea that it was for CM's is just another in a long line of daydreams that Disney fans have conjured up.

Think about it for yourself. You have a lot of cool "special" things supplied by industry to give you more time to enjoy life, yet, the hassle that is involved with just getting out of "town", kind of makes you captive unless you want to deal with many steps to get out. In the layout I didn't see many places for you to park your car. Maybe everything you need is in the "city". I can't speak for you, but, I know it wouldn't work for me.

Yes, I know that the idea of homeowner association are a bit over bearing as well, but, they are community based not city based. You have a choice of which one to buy into. Let's face it it was to be an elitist city. It would have been conform or get out. It had all kinds of good intentions, but, it had way to many questionable desires to keep the "riff raff" out and only the pure in and sheltered.

Who would have chosen the heads of government? I don't see anyplace where that is addressed in detail. Would it be an elective process and then what if the public decided to put a leader in place that was 180 degrees off the vision of Walt Disney as to how this would all work. Would Disney have veto power? I think that if they were supposed to control that environment to the degree that would be required, they would have total say in all of that stuff that we take for granted we control in our own communities.

Like I said, I do think that it was a noble idea with nothing but good intention, but, I am of a strong belief that it just wouldn't work. People are, for the most part, way to diverse to fit into a one size fits all, do as your told, type of living arrangement. A nice place to visit, but, I wouldn't want to live there.

Have you actually watched the entire "Florida Film" about the EPCOT project?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I suppose that the CM's would be a captive audience, but, I don't think that Walt's intention was to make it a company store type of setup. For one thing, it would have been a costly venture and the CM's for the most part would not have had the income to support themselves within it. I think the idea that it was for CM's is just another in a long line of daydreams that Disney fans have conjured up.

Think about it for yourself. You have a lot of cool "special" things supplied by industry to give you more time to enjoy life, yet, the hassle that is involved with just getting out of "town", kind of makes you captive unless you want to deal with many steps to get out. In the layout I didn't see many places for you to park your car. Maybe everything you need is in the "city". I can't speak for you, but, I know it wouldn't work for me.

Yes, I know that the idea of homeowner association are a bit over bearing as well, but, they are community based not city based. You have a choice of which one to buy into. Let's face it it was to be an elitist city. It would have been conform or get out. It had all kinds of good intentions, but, it had way to many questionable desires to keep the "riff raff" out and only the pure in and sheltered.

Who would have chosen the heads of government? I don't see anyplace where that is addressed in detail. Would it be an elective process and then what if the public decided to put a leader in place that was 180 degrees off the vision of Walt Disney as to how this would all work. Would Disney have veto power? I think that if they were supposed to control that environment to the degree that would be required, they would have total say in all of that stuff that we take for granted we control in our own communities.

Like I said, I do think that it was a noble idea with nothing but good intention, but, I am of a strong belief that it just wouldn't work. People are, for the most part, way to diverse to fit into a one size fits all, do as your told, type of living arrangement. A nice place to visit, but, I wouldn't want to live there.

In the film Walt says that the only people living in EPCOT would be working at Disney World. So they would either be Disney employees or employees of the partner companies doing work (with a focus on research and development) at either EPCOT or the industrial park.

Who gets to vote about decisions in an apartment complex?

 

[Goofyernmost]

In the film Walt says that the only people living in EPCOT would be working at Disney World. So they would either be Disney employees or employees of the partner companies doing work (with a focus on research and development) at either EPCOT or the industrial park.

Who gets to vote about decisions in an apartment complex?

So a city full of rental units, with low income residents? Yup! Sounds like all the makings of success to me. So, tell me who gets to pay for all that stuff, you know buildings, utilities, roads, etc. Me thinks it would be Disney. At the time, they were in no position to do that. I still think it would have failed. We could go on arguing this forever, but, we will never know. It didn't happen, I'm glad, others are upset. Life is like that sometimes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So a city full of rental units, with low income residents? Yup! Sounds like all the makings of success to me. So, tell me who gets to pay for all that stuff, you know buildings, utilities, roads, etc. Me thinks it would be Disney. At the time, they were in no position to do that. I still think it would have failed. We could go on arguing this forever, but, we will never know. It didn't happen, I'm glad, others are upset. Life is like that sometimes.

So you know the wages of all people doing research and development work?

 

[Goofyernmost]

So you know the wages of all people doing research and development work?

It doesn't matter unless there are literally thousands of R&D CM's. And there aren't. And if they make enough you can believe that they would have their own little home in a nice cul-de-sac and a Florida room with a pool. Far away from their jobs, just like the rest of us would do.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It doesn't matter unless there are literally thousands of R&D CM's. And there aren't. And if they make enough you can believe that they would have their own little home in a nice cul-de-sac and a Florida room with a pool. Far away from their jobs, just like the rest of us would do.

What part of not being only Disney Cast Members are you having trouble understanding? There was only going to be the one theme park.

Being far away from work is one of the big problems EPCOT was trying to address. That stupid love affair has helped build massive public debt and air pollution.

 

[Goofyernmost]

What part of not being only Disney Cast Members are you having trouble understanding? There was only going to be the one theme park.

Being far away from work is one of the big problems EPCOT was trying to address. That stupid love affair has helped build massive public debt and air pollution.

I don't even understand that first question. I'm not the one that said that they were only going to be Cast Member, someone else did. I just said, OK, could be, but I didn't think so. Also, what color is the sky in the world you live in. If you can decide that human beings will all of a sudden let themselves be thrust into a controlled life, simply because of that then you are really not in touch with reality, no matter how good the cause. On top of that the massive public debt and the vast majority of the air pollution problem comes from cities, not suburbs. The tiny parcel of land that EPCOT would have occupied would not do much for the overall earth environment. Remember that society lived that way for centuries. They resided in cities until the automobile allowed them to get away and live in more spacious surroundings. It was like a mad dash to get out of the cities and into a more rural way of life. Do you really think that just because Walt Disney built a city, that desire would be out the door?

 

[FettFan]

If Walt was alive today and walked though future world and world showcase what reaction would he have?

"BraAiiNSssS"

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't even understand that first question. I'm not the one that said that they were only going to be Cast Member, someone else did. I just said, OK, could be, but I didn't think so. Also, what color is the sky in the world you live in. If you can decide that human beings will all of a sudden let themselves be thrust into a controlled life, simply because of that then you are really not in touch with reality, no matter how good the cause. On top of that the massive public debt and the vast majority of the air pollution problem comes from cities, not suburbs. The tiny parcel of land that EPCOT would have occupied would not do much for the overall earth environment. Remember that society lived that way for centuries. They resided in cities until the automobile allowed them to get away and live in more spacious surroundings. It was like a mad dash to get out of the cities and into a more rural way of life. Do you really think that just because Walt Disney built a city, that desire would be out the door?

If you would do as little as watch the video you would know who would live in the city. People pay a premium in housing costs to reduce their commutes. And people lived on farms for centuries, not in cities. Suburbs are built the way they are because of laws that require them to be built that way, the very same sort of force you claim they reject.

 

[Goofyernmost]

If you would do as little as watch the video you would know who would live in the city. People pay a premium in housing costs to reduce their commutes. And people lived on farms for centuries, not in cities. Suburbs are built the way they are because of laws that require them to be built that way, the very same sort of force you claim they reject.

Farmers lived on farms, not the general public, if they had, there wouldn't be any cities would there? Granted there were more farmers back then, but, they didn't make up, except for massive breeding practices, for city populations where you lived, to make a living, after the iron age began. They had to live where the jobs were. Other then a whole lot of horse droppings laying about everywhere, pollution was at a minimum as well. Well there was that sewage into the streets problem and that pesky old sewage in the rivers and streams problem, but, other then that... nothing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Farmers lived on farms, not the general public, if they had, there wouldn't be any cities would there? Granted there were more farmers back then, but, they didn't make up, except for massive breeding practices, for city populations where you lived, to make a living, after the iron age began. They had to live where the jobs were. Other then a whole lot of horse droppings laying about everywhere, pollution was at a minimum as well. Well there was that sewage into the streets problem and that pesky old sewage in the rivers and streams problem, but, other then that... nothing.

Maybe you should look up some statistics on where people lived. The majority of people living in cities is an incredibly recent change.

 

[ChrisFL]

I don't think this discussion is going to get anywhere.

 

[Phil12]

Walt specifically stated that in EPCOT, the residents would not be allowed to vote nor would they be allowed to own any real property. The bottom line is that Walt wanted a totalitarian regime. It's kind of like the DVC.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Walt specifically stated that in EPCOT, the residents would not be allowed to vote nor would they be allowed to own any real property. The bottom line is that Walt wanted a totalitarian regime. It's kind of like the DVC.

Are apartment complexes totalitarian regimes?

 

[Phil12]

Are apartment complexes totalitarian regimes?

Living in an apartment complex does not strip you of your right to vote on affairs of local government. Walt's idea would not allow any residents to vote on municipal issues. The key to EPCOT is that Walt (and his investors) would have total control.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't think this discussion is going to get anywhere.

Yes, it is... it's going to stop. At least as far as I am concerned. Gotta admire an "I'm not giving up" attitude though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Living in an apartment complex does not strip you of your right to vote on affairs of local government. Walt's idea would not allow any residents to vote on municipal issues. The key to EPCOT is that Walt (and his investors) would have total control.

And apartment complex have total control over issues that overlap with a lot of those municipal issues. There is no voting on widening the roads in the complex or the tenants in on-property commercial space. Even after Reedy Creek Improvement District was incorporated it remained part of the counties. Celebration and the All Star Resorts were direct results of pressure applied by Oseola County.

 

[Phil12]

And apartment complex have total control over issues that overlap with a lot of those municipal issues. There is no voting on widening the roads in the complex or the tenants in on-property commercial space. Even after Reedy Creek Improvement District was incorporated it remained part of the counties. Celebration and the All Star Resorts were direct results of pressure applied by Oseola County.

You're grasping. Walt of course had nothing to do with those projects.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You're grasping. Walt of course had nothing to do with those projects.

Its only grasping to you because they kills your notion of the Reedy Creek Improvement District being its own kingdom. Voters outside of Disney's property were able to shape what happened inside the Improvement District.