FP+ meltdown part x

[BrerJon]

Everyone has their preferences, yours is just for a company that datamines everything you do and sells it to everyone else.

I thought this was a discussion about Apple vs Android, not Disney?

 

[BrerJon]

say whaaaat? B-b-but its much faster to use a kiosk because they are conveniently located rather than the old way of walking to the attraction and getting a paper FP. LMAO. Whats sad is that this picture isnt even as bad as others I have seen. Dontcha just love waiting in a line JUST to get a FP,... only to wait in another line that Disney calls "fast" pass entrance.

One of the main reasons the kiosks have lines is because it takes a long time for each person to make their selections, as usually Cast Member assistance is needed for everyone unless they're doing something very straight forward.

In the old days, you only needed a Cast Member if your card wouldn't scan or the pass got stuck, whereas now you may save ten minutes having to walk to the attraction to get the Fastpass, but what was once a 30 second process can now take 2 or 3 minutes, longer if it is your first time using the system and you haven't registered in advance, so that leads to long lines sometimes.

 

[WDF]

I can tell which people in this discussion would be fun to vacation with and which people would drive me insane.

Maybe dating sites should have a question about a person's opinion of Fastpass+ and My Disney Experience.

 

[BrerJon]

I've never understood fanboy-ism when it comes to technology. Why someone would declare undying loyalty to a friggin' phone truly baffles me. I personally own a Nexus 5, my wife an iPhone 5, my song has an iPad Mini, we have a Kindle Fire, our everyday PC runs Linux, and my HTPC runs Windows 7. I have zero loyalty and use whatever tool gets the job done. If you feel the need to express your undying love to a piece of technology while at the same time disparaging its competitor, then you are an idiot.

I feel the same way about theme parks. I'm a Disney-fan through and through since birth, but at the moment find myself slating TDO and praising Universal to the high heavens because I think one is doing a much better job than the other. I like to think I judge more on quality of offering than brand loyalty.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I should have said "perceived advantage." We'll buy in to the trap if it seems advantageous. We really don't have much of a choice, right? If you eliminate the obvious pain-points with using the new system, we'll adopt.

Well said. Especially the point of we don't have a choice.

Eliminating the pain is the least of WDW's concerns. The perception of pain maybe in their mind with reducing down the "sky is falling" types of issues like say the entire MM+ system crashing; but, the long term pain for the guest in terms of what MM+/FP+ will yield is going to be a very bitter pill that they will try to sugar coat as best as possible. Crowd steering will ultimately fail. Guests steered to attractions they don't want to experience in the first place will cause more long term harm than good. What WDW needs are more rides and attractions that will naturally command a wait and less that artificially have one created for it.

The long term consequences of how much this brave new World will play out have yet to be seen. I can only hope that it reaches a breaking point when guest realize that while they were able to book a reserved time for a ride on Splash Mountain, the days of being able to get a fast moving wait for Haunted Mansion or Pirates isn't worth it. Especially when you need to spend time in line to reserve a time for a ride.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

"Maybe not to you but they are to us. I can not walk around in my real life for a week and ride, eat, sleep, drink, shop and relax like I can at WDW with a magic rubber band taking care of everything "unfun" about those things. That is immersive to us. If fact beyond not being able to do so it in my real life I don't know of a single place other than WDW that offers that experience."

...ever been on a CRUISE!!! 1 CARD Does it all !!! You can quit singing the "Hosannah"s...the concept is not that ORIGINAL !!

 

[WDF]

Carrying around a "card" and wearing a basically indestructible waterproof "bracelet" are not the same.

In my opinion.

 

[BigTxEars]

I have been on a cruise and it's not the same to us, in fact a Disney cruise no less. we loved it but it's not the same as a week at WDW using a MB to us.

 

[BigTxEars]

I love that my droid phone (galaxy), can control my smart tv, Xbox, sound system, and laptops throughout the house and I can display my phone onto the tv as well and its ALL for free. Apple makes you buy that apple tv box for $99 (lmao) to be able to do it and its still not as good.

I have zero against Android (it's a quality OS) but Apple is near and dear to my heart, has been for a long time. The computer OS (OS X) is so superior to Windows IMO that it's a no brainer for me to pretty much stick with Apple when I can.

 

[1023]

Ahhhh, anecdotes. I love them.

[/Anecdote] I frequently rode TSMM 2 or 3 times before 11am under the old system. At best now, I can't get on it more than 2 times unless I tolerate the dreaded long line that everyone says they are trying to avoid. [/Anecdote] I guess I could try for that "rolling" FastPass after my other 2 come up but I may then discover I would have to stay "7 hours later" to use it or that there were none available. This thought process leads me into my frustration with the limited number of attractions at DHS, but I digress.

I have decided to cease using the word "value" in this thread. It seems that as a noun and a verb with many contextual definitions, it is being used differently by different posters. So I will only point out that it is difficult, if not impossible, to enjoy as many attractions at WDW under the new system.

Part of the problem is that a good portion of the people on here bashing MDE/FP+ have not even been to the parks since MDE/FP+ started. They just feed off the negativity of others and want to add to it. Another portion of the bashers went to the park and had "1" bad experience. Wither it be it didn't open their room door that 1 day or their credit card wouldn't sync for that one purchase. Guess what, the "key to the world" had the same issues. If people only posted from their own honest personal experiences the "board" would look a lot different.

I have been to WDW 5 times since the "testing" of MDE and the associated aspects have been implemented. Each and everyone of those visits has had me standing in line at guest relations more than once. This does not count the hours of time I have spent on the phone prior to these trips to try and prevent having to stand in line at guest relations. Conversely, on dozens of other visits to WDW I have only had to visit guest relations to make dining reservations, purchase my new Premier Annual Passport, or book a special event. These are all vacations planned well in advance including trips across the country to Orlando. In fact, I have not had any issue with any airlines or hotels during these visits.

Planning? Every vacation involves planning why should Disney be any different? ADR's - I can't go to any restaurant by me at dinner time and get a table. If its the weekend, you are looking at a 60 to 90 minute wait for any restaurant wither it be Applebees, Olive Garden, Outback, Ruth's Chris, or anywhere else.
FP+ - its nice to know that I WILL get to ride the rides I want to. I have been to Disney several times with the old system and been turned away from Soar'in and TSMM because all of the days FP's were gone by 10 am and the lines were already over 90 minutes long.

I have always enjoyed the ADR system as a way to plan my big meal of the day. ADR's were available prior to MDE and despite being more confiscatory about cancellation/credit card guarantee, I use them every trip. I also planned my vacations prior to visiting using handy guides like the one Len Testa publishes. The beauty of that planning is, it was far more fluid than the new system. EXAMPLE: If I woke up to a bad weather day, I could skip the idea of the water park and still hit any or all headliner attractions at other parks. Try doing that with the new system considering that if you aren't at your computer at the appointed time 60 days in advance of your trip, you will be unlikely to get a line reservation for 7DMT. Also, reflecting back on your restaurant analogy, you at least had the option of standing by to eat at a restaurant unlike recent visitors to the TSMM attraction.

Is MDE/FP+ a money pit?.... Who knows it very well could be. We will never know for sure because Disney will NEVER publically release that info. People can only speculate on what the budgets were and what the actual costs are. As long as the ticket increases don't jump any more than the historical trend I'm not sure it really matters.

Several of the contributors here have found ways to break out the costs of this system. I am not one of those contributors. @ParentsOf4 might be able to shed some light for you or perhaps other reliable sources. I think that the additional infrastructure supporting WiFi service was money well spent.

Remember, people with something negative always scream the loudest and most often.

Very true. You should never let your critics be your only quality control. A dissatisfied customer sure tells a lot of people. That's why there is a forum area here to specifically identify the great cast member experiences all of us Disney fans have had. Then there are areas for discussing good or bad things of many stripes.

I do try to see it from the "NGE the greatest thing ever" side of things. If maximizing the number of attractions you enjoy during the day is not important to you, then you are unaffected (or less affected) by the changes. Perhaps it is even better for the "sleep in" types. You like the new system and you are entitled to that opinion.

I still can't ignore the loss utility and limited fluidity with the introduction of the new system (fastpass distribution at the attraction instead of a far off kiosk with an enormous line for example). I point to the number of attractions that were added to the "fastpass" lineup that never had a legacy "fastpass" system. (Why add a fastpass queue to an attraction that had a 20 minute or less standby most of the day.) I also point to the stated purpose of this new program which is excising more money from the wallet of every visitor.

There are some other Disney laced options for me I know:

1) Maybe it's time to start utilizing VIP guide led park tours and just walking on the attractions as I see fit. While expensive and feeding directly into the idea of giving TDO more of my wallet, it seems it would allow me to skip the OCD planning of the new system. It would also reduce the number of hours spent in line, time spent using the MDE application, time spent in any individual park, and time spent waiting on transportation between parks.

2) Maybe I visit the Universally overhauled offerings down the road. Stay onsite there and use the lovely Uber express pass to skip the lines. No added expense there since I usually stay on site of my theme park vacations. This is one of the vote with your feet options people talk about here.

3) Stay on my side of the country and visit DLR where none of this MDE stuff is implemented (yet). I know I'll get on all the attractions here (provided they are open). This is another of the vote with your feet options that people talk about here.

4) Head to the foreign lands that contain Disney branded parks. Most likely the option I'll take this spring or summer to vote with my feet.

I am not sure why the folks that are so satisfied with the new system can't acknowledge it's large number of drawbacks. I can at least see some of the good in it.

*1023*

 

[prberk]

I think you are completely overblowing how this impacts a day. For most people, FP+ means three rides in a day that they go to, with an hour window each. Maybe they have 1 or 2 meals reserved too. OK. So, during a day, a group would have 4-5 things that they have scheduled in a general timeframe. It's not nearly the burden you imply -- you just aim to be in a general area of the park around the windows (or close enough to walk there).

And, honestly, your main complain really is less about FP+ and more about enforcing FP return windows when you think about it. Because once they started enforcing return windows with paper FP, the same concerns about having to be a certain place at a certain time came to bear. And, unlike FP+, you didn't have flexibility with your return time. A runner (or the whole party) would go to a ride and have to decide whether to even get a FP if the time worked.

Also, attractions going down is one of the clear positive things about FP+ use. You can use the FP+ any time for that ride when it comes back or simply do something else -- that greatly increases flexibility, not hinders it.

Ok. "Three rides a day...1 or 2 meals reserved, too. OK. ... So, during a day, a group would have 4-5 things that they have scheduled in a general timeframe."

In WDW time, on average, considering walk/travel time, that would seem to me to be about 4-5 HOURS scheduled out already, and likely with a CREDIT CARD GUARANTEE for any sit-down restaurant.

For most people that is almost half of your waking hours in a vacation day -- planned months in advance, with a charge to your card if you find something nice that you would rather do for dinner (something you did not know about six months ago), or you felt like changing that day... Not to mention the factoring in of Disney transportation issues that might come up and cause you to be late. Or a baby gets sick, or a grandmother.

I am a planner, and used to get ADRs for most of my family and friends, to "help out." Even when they were just priority seating (not actual reservations), several members of my family began to feel tied down to plans that I made (even with their input) months ago; and it was a little bit of burden, to where they said that they felt like every decision they got to make was based on when and where are we supposed to eat next? They did not appreciate feeling rushed when they wanted to stop and do something they had not planned for back at home three months ago. It got to the point often that they just wanted to cancel dinner and do something else -- which you CANNOT DO WITH THIS SYSTEM without a fee.

So, I think that is the rub. That they have taken something that was a nice, though imperfect, feature; and made it more mandatory and such that it punishes sponteneity. It punishes someone who might discover something new that might bump up on plans they made months ago.

At the crazy prices Disney charges these days for everything, there ought to be reasonable acco

 

[Chippy]

Or maybe, just maybe you can schedule your rides with the idea of having enough time to relax at your meal and still get to the FP in time. Just tossing that out there. We had zero problem utilizing the FP's and still having plenty of time to sit down and relax at a meal without worrying about getting up and running a marathon to get to the ride/attraction. Every time I see someone complaining about not having enough time to get to their FP because they are eating I have to wonder about their time management skills. Did they really think that they should schedule a FP for a time when they might consider getting something to eat? Did they really decide that they would have enough time to relax at a meal 45 minutes before their FP time started? I would think that the CM's that are irritated are likely more irritated at the guest's lack of planning skills. Yes, even eating somewhere spur of the moment with the old FP system required a modicum of planning ability. Unless that person was one of the countless inconsiderate people that thought "I have a Fast Pass for 10:00am to 11:00am. I'll hold on to that baby for 8:00pm tonight." Again, the FP+ system is only as difficult as a person allows it to be. Use it responsibly and don't schedule/walk-in for a dinner 30-45 minutes before the FP time.

I must be missing something because I wanted to like the new system but it was just not pleasant or easy. I used the FP+ for the first time in preparation for our upcoming trip (11 days away!), and it may just be my own experience - but I did not find much flexibility in scheduling FP's. The FP's come in sets. I really only wanted the big draws - 7DMT, TS, SOARN, TT. Having heard that 4th FP+ were available only after the first three are used I was hoping to book early FP. I found that the first three days of my trip had only late - read dinner hour or later availability for the rides I wanted in the parks I was locked into because of ADRs.

I was up at midnight to book and the system was down. Not up until 5:00 a.m. I stayed up trying all night until it was available. Still I found that I had to start with my last days of the trip to find any early-ish times. It seems to me that planing FP+ after ADR's makes things much harder. I do not want to choose between great dining experiences and getting on all the rides we'd like to over a 10 day visit. Really, guests should be able to cover both when they are planning so darn far in advance. And I do not love that so many of my FP+ were available late in the day and late in the evening only - when I was booking at the earliest moment possible.

Our last trip was exactly a year ago and I did not attempt to make FP+ as these were the last days of paper FP and we only use them for the big rides - soarn, test track, and manage to hit the rides we like without them. We never tried to use a FP outside of its time stamp and never minded the standby lines.

 

[G00fyDad]

I must be missing something because I wanted to like the new system but it was just not pleasant or easy. I used the FP+ for the first time in preparation for our upcoming trip (11 days away!), and it may just be my own experience - but I did not find much flexibility in scheduling FP's. The FP's come in sets. I really only wanted the big draws - 7DMT, TS, SOARN, TT. Having heard that 4th FP+ were available only after the first three are used I was hoping to book early FP. I found that the first three days of my trip had only late - read dinner hour or later availability for the rides I wanted in the parks I was locked into because of ADRs.

I was up at midnight to book and the system was down. Not up until 5:00 a.m. I stayed up trying all night until it was available. Still I found that I had to start with my last days of the trip to find any early-ish times. It seems to me that planing FP+ after ADR's makes things much harder. I do not want to choose between great dining experiences and getting on all the rides we'd like to over a 10 day visit. Really, guests should be able to cover both when they are planning so darn far in advance. And I do not love that so many of my FP+ were available late in the day and late in the evening only - when I was booking at the earliest moment possible.

Our last trip was exactly a year ago and I did not attempt to make FP+ as these were the last days of paper FP and we only use them for the big rides - soarn, test track, and manage to hit the rides we like without them. We never tried to use a FP outside of its time stamp and never minded the standby lines.

You should have booked at 60 days out, not 11. Of course nothing early exists that early now that it is so close to your trip. I know quite a lot of people that go to Disney, and none of them have ever had as much trouble as those in these forums say they have had. I can only conclude that the trouble is either falsified (not saying that is what you are doing.) and they are doing so because they don't like change and want something to gripe about. Or they honestly have had issues, but those issues are created by that person (again, not accusing you here. ) There are, I am sure, a few that have had issues relating to a technical issue (outages and such), but these things happen. They happened with the old system, and they will happen with whatever system replaces MM+. Welcome to the 21st century.

May I suggest that you go ahead and take the late FP+'s. We do. Then we get to the parks early, ride the big stuff with a walk-on, then use the FP's for later in the day.

 

[Gabe1]

I have been on a cruise and it's not the same to us, in fact a Disney cruise no less. we loved it but it's not the same as a week at WDW using a MB to us.

Great Bear Lodge Vacations has used a Band for a while already, before Disney. Yes Disney is a bigger venue but the concept isn't original.

 

[Longhairbear]

the only think I'm not sure about with using the new FP+ system is if I'm finished using my reservations for the day, is the only way to get new FPs is to visit an in-park Kiosk, or am I able to do it via the App?

Saturday was the first time I had truly used the new system, and traveling with a little one, I can see the pros and cons of it. It's great to be able to get a couple FPs together and hit one ride after another with minimal wait, but schedules rarely keep ON schedule when kids are involved. Seemed like a great idea to be able to hit iasw (shouldn't need a FP for it anyway) and then head over to Winnie the Pooh, but DS's (9-months) mood went from happy to sour while the boats stacked up at the unload for isaw. We ended up needing to change plans and get him fed and let him take a cat nap. Maybe it was just a matter of getting familiar with how to work this new system, but having to get FPs for everything vs having a segment of the attractions that are more or less walk-ons seems disadvantageous.

btw...for anyone who hasn't been to Disneyland...Little Mermaid rarely has more than a 10 minute wait. I couldn't believe that the Stand-by time for ours was 70 mins this Saturday...it's an Omnimover.

Also...kudos to Park Ops trying to start managing traffic flow around the hub. It took them FAR TOO LONG to realize that people who are there to watch fireworks want to set up in the street and not the sidewalk...now if they could just figure out how to get one way traffic flowing during peak Hub times.

A few weekends ago we got into line at Little Mermaid at DCA right after World Of Color emptied out. They opened the entire switchback queue, and added a bit more. The wait was about 15 minutes. The attraction was a walk on when we got off the ride. It ate the crowd up.

 

[devoy1701]

A few weekends ago we got into line at Little Mermaid at DCA right after World Of Color emptied out. They opened the entire switchback queue, and added a bit more. The wait was about 15 minutes. The attraction was a walk on when we got off the ride. It ate the crowd up.

TDO's execution of The Little Mermaid is a perfect representation of MK not having enough attraction capacity and using FP when not necessary making a ride system grossly inefficient.

 

[prberk]

A few weekends ago we got into line at Little Mermaid at DCA right after World Of Color emptied out. They opened the entire switchback queue, and added a bit more. The wait was about 15 minutes. The attraction was a walk on when we got off the ride. It ate the crowd up.

TDO's execution of The Little Mermaid is a perfect representation of MK not having enough attraction capacity and using FP when not necessary making a ride system grossly inefficient.

Somebody please get this to the wonks in Burbank. Please.

It shows the inherent problems in MM+, which takes a nice feature (reservations or priority booking) that used to help and give a slight advantage to their best customers on things that made sense (like sit-down restaurants, or rides that could use it well), and expanded it out to the point of rediculousness -- where it now has the opposite effect on your vacation. Whether it be through this example of clogging an attraction that was built for efficiency, or through the annoyance of making a person pay a fee for changing their mind about dinner (even though they are still eating at another Disney restaurant somewhere in another park), the whole thing has been taken too far, and will have certainly unintended consequences that will take away from the experience of what used to be called the "vacation kingdom," more than enhancing it.

Sometimes a good idea taken too far is worse than never starting it in the first place.

Doesn't it all feel a lot like when you were a kid and someone took things just a little too far, and "they ruined it for everyone"?

 

[WelshBatman]

I have been to Disney many times since fastpass + rolled out and have yet to use it (haven't needed it), but the thing that surprises me most is that you start hearing people in the queue being genuinely surprised at everything working right. It seems to be a source of stress for a lot of people now. They plan everything out and then just wait for something to go wrong... Not the reputation that Disney wants I would wager. The system is so faulty that people are excited when it finally works right.

This and the growing lines at guest relations are just weird. It's something you shouldn't expect to see or endure on a VACATION.

 

[pax_65]

In reality, FP+ is a mousetrap. It's one that is designed to keep the guests running around in the maze in the hopes of being distracted by a piece of rotten cheese (Stitch/Imagination/etc) in the hope that they won't all go after the coveted cheddar at the center of the maze.

100% AGREE! But it isn't obvious. It took me a while to realize what was going on. Think about it... Disney is training guests to use the system. In theory, the FP has value, even if it's for an attraction you didn't know you wanted. You get what you can get and then just grab whatever is left. But then you stay in the park to use that 4:30pm FP for Stitch even though you didn't even really want it, the ride usually doesn't normally have much of a wait and you could have practically walked on before the days of MM+.

Meanwhile, if you're walking around Tomorrowland and decide to do Stitch (for whatever reason), you're shocked to discover a much longer wait than usual because the FPs are eating it up.

I waited about 20-minutes for Imagination two weeks ago. Not proud to admit that...

 

[wdisney9000]

Part of the problem is that a good portion of the people on here bashing MDE/FP+ have not even been to the parks since MDE/FP+ started. They just feed off the negativity of others and want to add to it. Another portion of the bashers went to the park and had "1" bad experience. Wither it be it didn't open their room door that 1 day or their credit card wouldn't sync for that one purchase. Guess what, the "key to the world" had the same issues. If people only posted from their own honest personal experiences the "board" would look a lot different.

Planning? Every vacation involves planning why should Disney be any different? ADR's - I can't go to any restaurant by me at dinner time and get a table. If its the weekend, you are looking at a 60 to 90 minute wait for any restaurant wither it be Applebees, Olive Garden, Outback, Ruth's Chris, or anywhere else.
FP+ - its nice to know that I WILL get to ride the rides I want to. I have been to Disney several times with the old system and been turned away from Soar'in and TSMM because all of the days FP's were gone by 10 am and the lines were already over 90 minutes long.

Is MDE/FP+ a money pit?.... Who knows it very well could be. We will never know for sure because Disney will NEVER publically release that info. People can only speculate on what the budgets were and what the actual costs are. As long as the ticket increases don't jump any more than the historical trend I'm not sure it really matters.

Remember, people with something negative always scream the loudest and most often.

I think you make a fair point, and your correct that there are people who will bash FP+ who haven't even tried it yet. Thats not fair, no argument there. However, there are people who have experienced a trip with FP+/MM+ only once, just one trip, and either had no issues at all, or a complete nightmare experience. I think many conflicting viewpoints can happen when someone has only experienced it one time.

Someone who visited and had no issues at all would wonder why anybody would hate it.

Someone who visited and had a nightmare experience would wonder why anybody would like it.

My wife and I have had several trips since MM+ first started testing, so has my sister and brothers families. We have had trips that were "flawless" and had trips that had "nightmares". When it's flawless, it's great. But when you have a group of 8 and there's one person whose magic band isn't registering its FP+ for Space Mountain and you have to go all the way to guest relations because the CM doesn't know what to do and treats you as if your trying to scam the system, it is very frustrating and you wonder why would anybody like a system that has such potential for disaster.

I've been on both ends of those scenarios. I've also 100% accepted that MM+ is here to stay and that we will probly NEVER see legacy FP again in Orlando. I've made my piece with that and I will continue to visit. But having experienced the good AND the bad of MM+, I feel the need to speak up when someone has an issue understanding why people don't like it. It just really, really, really sucks when you have to spend 20 minutes or more at guest relations and/or front desk of your resort more than once during your trip, or while your waiting in line at guest relations, for the second time that day, you start to think about how you never would have had this problem with the paper FP. These type of issues REALLY DO HAPPEN. If it hasn't happened to you yet, it could, at any moment of your trip. Hopefully it does not though. And yes, Disney is working out the bugs, albeit at a glacial pace. My brothers first experience last November was a nightmare, his daughters MB kept failing to light up the mickey head green for FP+ entrance and it required many trips to GR, daily, and he hated it, BUT, he just returned from a week long visit and had no issues this time and really enjoyed the bands and FP+.

In the end, its easy to get conflicted and get into a debate with another person depending on your personal experience with the system. As someone who has used it many times, I can honestly say its not that bad but I genuinely feel that legacy FP was better. Did it require you to be at rope drop for certain attractions? Sure. Did you have the ability to change FP on your phone? Nope. Did you have to walk to an attraction to get a FP rather than whip out your phone? Yep. But the simplicity of it is what I miss. No chance of an error occurring in the system. Being a FP runner was fun, I could grab a beer and get FP for Soarin while the family hopped on Spaceship Earth and met after. Getting up for rope drop was fun, it meant more time in the parks and we got back to the room early in the afternoon for a break. Both legacy and FP+ have their pros and cons and if you look for faults, you will find them, for both systems. Best thing to do, IMO, is just quit worrying about it and revel in the fact that in your fricking Walt Disney World and enjoy yourself. It could always be worse...