Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[RSoxNo1]

Please provide examples of how, prior to this Frozen debacle, World Showcase's vision and intent has been compromised.

Never to this extent, however:
characters in each pavilion. I believe that started in 1984. Then Gran Fiesta Tour. The worst part about that is that it was a lateral move from a quality standpoint.

 

[Andrew C]

You just mad your argument doesn't hold any water and had a major hole blow into it. Flynn placed your argument into the coffin and lowered it into the ground. I put the dirt on top burying your argument.

@flynnibus bowed out because of YOU. He realized you just cannot have a rational debate with irrational people, such as yourself, BigTexas, daddio, and your ilk. Others have bowed out because of irrational people like Texas, JT, daddio and yourself.

What do I see World Showcase as? A collection of pavilions/attractions which SHOWCASE the real world country which it is meant to represent, giving guests a small little taste of that country's history, culture; whether it be with food, drink, merchandise products, entertainment, ride.

What is World Showcase actually? A collection of pavilions/attractions which SHOWCASE the real world country which it is meant to represent, giving guests a small little taste of that country's history/culture/heritage of the people of that country; whether it be with food, drink, merchandise products, entertainment, and/or a ride. This is what World Showcase is, was and always has been. That is NOT a figment of ANYONE's imagination.

What they are making NORWAY into, and slowly the entire World Showcase, is a dumbed down version of Disney theme park, aiming at the little kid or mentally stunted adult. That is NOT what World Showcase, or Epcot in general was EVER.

What is funny is, you keep blaming the people who are against Frozen going into Norway as being bat crap crazy. Meanwhile, it is your ilk who are going bat crap crazy. Again, your ilk are irrational. You all ask for proof of what World Showcase is/was. You got that proof. You ignore it or try to discredit it cause it blows a hole into your argument.

Is there a dislike button I can hit for this post?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Would onion domes on the church have given Elsa more self control? Would Hans have been less conniving in an English tailcoat? Would Anna have been unwilling to seek out her sister wearing a dirndl?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

However theres nothing i can do about it.

I hear for every hashtag you tweet a construction worker loses a nail.

 

[BigTxEars]

See, this entire post is about you... just sayin.

The smilies were pointed out as how enthusiastically you kept stating about buying and eating what disney dishes out. I have no problem with you having your own standards, I'm glad to hear it... again why this was brought into the debate at all... I have no idea.

And... again... EPCOT and WS current theming never seemed to matter to you before as you kept saying "edutainment" was outdated... and then didn't exist anymore... when it fact it does. A lot of you guys seem to not like the theme, but whatever.

And why should I counter any point that you've stated many times doesn't matter? It stands the same. It has nothing to do with Norway. Finding architectural similarities... okay. There you go. It's still not about Norway.

Star Wars (a fantasy set in an imaginary world, like Lord Of The Rings and Frozen) was based on many cultures, specifically Samurais in Japan. It still doesn't belong in WS. Matter of fact, going by your evidence LOTR has more of place in WS than Frozen... and yet it doesn't belong there either.

Is that your response to those links showing the connection between Frozen and Norway? No counter points at all, just deflections? Has nothing to do with Norway, really....after looking at those links your still trying to sale that ideal? I will give you points for going down swinging at least

I do think it's irrelevant rather Norway and Frozen are linked since they are in the vast majority of WDW guest' minds. That standard is high enough to place them in WS IMO. But if people on here want to keep throwing out the "Norway and Frozen are not related" concept then I will be glad to show them the error of their ways. I have yet to see anyone counter those links that were provided by a earlier poster. I would guess on a 140 page thread that someone would if they could, therefore I am going to assume no one can.

And yes I said and still think WS is more retailtainment then edutainment, like I posted earlier the case can be made for both and everybody has to decided for themselves which the greater, the retail or educational aspect of WS. I base my opinion on the fact that the space allocation in WS has a much higher retail ratio than an educational one.

BTW the Frozen gals are on Once Upon A Time next week, should be good. Are you going to watch?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Never to this extent, however:
characters in each pavilion. I believe that started in 1984. Then Gran Fiesta Tour. The worst part about that is that it was a lateral move from a quality standpoint.

IMHO, Gran Fiesta was a significant downgrade from El Rio del Tiempo.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I've read the links. It's like 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon. There is a connection between Norway and Frozen- but it doesn't mean Disney animated films should be showcased in pavilions that were supposed to be about their national culture.

 

[Mainahman]

Boy a, I glad I bought my viking helmet last trip!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I've read the links. It's like 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

I'm pretty sure with 6 degrees you could connect Maelstrom to Kevin Bacon himself too.

 

[BigTxEars]

You're simply looking at this with blinders on and you're not understanding the big picture. (Probably because you don't want to)

The ride description for Frozen claimed that it would be based on the characters and songs from the film. Similar to a dark ride in Fantasyland that depicts the story in a shortened form.

What about the story of Frozen depicts Norwegian history and/or culture? Was Arendelle a real place? Was there a talking snowman named Olaf? Was the Snow Queen fairy-tale created in Norway? (Or was it Denmark? )

Nobody has disputed the inaccuracy of the links you have provided numerous times. All people are saying is just because something is "inspired by" a nation, doesn't not qualify it as "based on" a nation. If a ride depicting the film Frozen is placed in Norway, the film should be "based on" the country of Norway.

I'd be curious to know your answers to my above questions.

Because for a refresher... World Showcase "showcases" the 11 nations including their history and culture, as if you are traveling to the actual country. And within each pavilion, there are either attractions or events that provide insight into each culture.

Just because you only use World Showcase as a retail/eating venue, doesn't magically make that what World Showcase was meant to be

"Frozen has no link to Norway" has been posted in various forms dozens and dozens of times on this thread. The links show that to be in error.

Not sure if your not reading or just missing post but I have said an number of time whatever WS was meant to be it is in fact a well themed retail area today. What is was meant to be is not my point as that really does not matter to me, in it's current form adding Olaf is not going to alter WS to me. I will just add him in with all the other toons running around WS today and add the Frozen merchandise to all the other merchandise within WS. I can buy a ton of merchandise based on Japanese animation today at WS, a little animated Frozen merchandise is not going to tip any balance to me. If it offends other then they should decide how to react to it.

And Olaf is as real as trolls and Thor as pointed out before. I can enjoy all kinds of make believe characters. Like I posted earlier to me WS has no historic relevance and I don't treat it as if it did. I certainly don't treat the local British import store

http://britishislesonline.com

as if it were a historical site, I am not going to do so in Florida either. The one in WS is much better themed but other than that they are pretty much the same thing IMO.

I would be fine with adding animated characters to the American pavillion that I would not be fine with adding to true American historical sites for example. I really don't want to see Mickey at Gettysburg for example, but him running around America in WS is something I expect to see and I would enjoy.

 

[misterID]

Is that your response to those links showing the connection between Frozen and Norway? No counter points at all, just deflections? Has nothing to do with Norway, really....after looking at those links your still trying to sale that ideal? I will give you points for going down swinging at least

I do think it's irrelevant rather Norway and Frozen are linked since they are in the vast majority of WDW guest' minds. That standard is high enough to place them in WS IMO. But if people on here want to keep throwing out the "Norway and Frozen are not related" concept then I will be glad to show them the error of their ways. I have yet to see anyone counter those links that were provided by a earlier poster. I would guess on a 140 page thread that someone would if they could, therefore I am going to assume no one can.

And yes I said and still think WS is more retailtainment then edutainment, like I posted earlier the case can be made for both and everybody has to decided for themselves which the greater, the retail or educational aspect of WS. I base my opinion on the fact that the space allocation in WS has a much higher retail ratio than an educational one.

BTW the Frozen gals are on Once Upon A Time next week, should be good. Are you going to watch?

I responded to your links. Because a Norwegian fan noticed similarities in architecture of some buildings, wardrobe, etc. has about as much relevance as Lord Of The Rings being based on England, and a host of other Old European cultures. Middle Earth still doesn't exist. Neither does Arendelle. Even in that fan post they repeatedly pointed this out. Norway is never mentioned in Frozen. Norway is not the setting. Norway's specific heritage, folklore or culture is not used. Like Middle Earth in Jackson's films, cultures were used to create a specific time and place to create a fictional world. You have to look really deep (or specifically google it to find that fan's website) to remotely find similarities. Rapunzel is there, destroying any chance it was based on Norway, as pointed out in the site. It's been repeated to you over and over that the story and the nation are not connected, but you keep ignoring it. It was thrown together because some Imagineers wanted it to be. There you go.

 

[spacemt354]

"Frozen has no link to Norway" has been posted in various forms dozens and dozens of times on this thread. The links show that to be in error.

Not sure if your not reading or just missing post but I have said an number of time whatever WS was meant to be it is in fact a well themed retail area today. What is was meant to be is not my point as that really does not matter to me, in it's current form adding Olaf is not going to alter WS to me. I will just add him in with all the other toons running around WS today and add the Frozen merchandise to all the other merchandise within WS. I can buy a ton of merchandise based on Japanese animation today at WS, a little animated Frozen merchandise is not going to tip any balance to me. If it offends other then they should decide how to react to it.

And Olaf is as real as trolls and Thor as pointed out before. I can enjoy all kinds of make believe characters. Like I posted earlier to me WS has no historic relevance and I don't treat it as if it did. I certainly don't treat the local British import store

http://britishislesonline.com

as if it were a historical site, I am not going to do so in Florida either. The one in WS is much better themed but other than that they are pretty much the same thing IMO.

I would be fine with adding animated characters to the American pavillion that I would not be fine with adding to true American historical sites for example. I really don't want to see Mickey at Gettysburg for example, but him running around America in WS is something I expect to see and I would enjoy.

I'm reading your posts just fine.

You didn't answer any of my questions so I'll simply ask them again....

What about the story of Frozen depicts Norwegian history and/or culture? Was Arendelle a real place? Was there a talking snowman named Olaf? Was the Snow Queen fairy-tale created in Norway? (Or was it Denmark? )

 

[misterID]

"Frozen has no link to Norway" has been posted in various forms dozens and dozens of times on this thread. The links show that to be in error.

Not sure if your not reading or just missing post but I have said an number of time whatever WS was meant to be it is in fact a well themed retail area today. What is was meant to be is not my point as that really does not matter to me, in it's current form adding Olaf is not going to alter WS to me. I will just add him in with all the other toons running around WS today and add the Frozen merchandise to all the other merchandise within WS. I can buy a ton of merchandise based on Japanese animation today at WS, a little animated Frozen merchandise is not going to tip any balance to me. If it offends other then they should decide how to react to it.

And Olaf is as real as trolls and Thor as pointed out before. I can enjoy all kinds of make believe characters. Like I posted earlier to me WS has no historic relevance and I don't treat it as if it did. I certainly don't treat the local British import store

http://britishislesonline.com

as if it were a historical site, I am not going to do so in Florida either. The one in WS is much better themed but other than that they are pretty much the same thing IMO.

I would be fine with adding animated characters to the American pavillion that I would not be fine with adding to true American historical sites for example. I really don't want to see Mickey at Gettysburg for example, but him running around America in WS is something I expect to see and I would enjoy.

Frozen has no place in Norway. The story does not exist in Norwegian culture or folklore. Neither does a talking snowman.

WS, lack of attractions or not, shopping centric or not, has a theme. Frozen does not match that theme. And all the other toons... That fit their specific country. Japanese animation in Japan. Trolls are in Norwegian culture. It's pretty clear. And clear you're intentionally ignoring the facts to push this argument who's only "proof" is a fan's interpretation, that btw are hedged with the fact the setting is a fantasy and doesn't really exist, outside similar physical descriptions in the animated buildings, wardrobe, etc. designs.

 

[BigTxEars]

Frozen has no place in Norway. The story does not exist in Norwegian culture or folklore. Neither does a talking snowman.

WS, lack of attractions or not, sopping centric or not, has a theme. Frozen does not match that theme. And all the other toons... That fit their specific country. Japanese animation in Japan. Trolls are in Norwegian culture. It's pretty clear. And clear you're intentionally ignoring the facts to push this argument who's only "proof" is a fan's interpretation, that btw are hedged with the fact the setting is a fantasy and doesn't really exist, outside similar physical descriptions in the animated buildings, wardrobe, etc. designs.

Keep pushing your opinion as fact, but at the end of the day (i.e. today) there are lots of toons running around WS and toon merchandise for sale in WS, the retail/food ratio in vastly larger than any educational space at WS and Olaf rolling into Norway is not going to change a darn thing in the daily operations of WS to the vast majority of Disney guest.

"are hedged with the fact the setting is a fantasy and doesn't really exist, outside similar physical descriptions in the animated buildings, wardrobe, etc. designs" Yeah what does any of that have to do with the culture or identiny of a country.....

See you in line for the frozen ride

 

[Andrew C]

At first I was upset about this change. I do not believe this belongs in Norway. Then, 2 or 3 days later, I reached the final stage of loss and grief...acceptance. Others may want to do the same...just not worth it. (Unless you are going on the news to announce a planned boycott, because that would be hilariously awesome.)

 

[BigTxEars]

I'm reading your posts just fine.

You didn't answer any of my questions so I'll simply ask them again....

What about the story of Frozen depicts Norwegian history and/or culture? Was Arendelle a real place? Was there a talking snowman named Olaf? Was the Snow Queen fairy-tale created in Norway? (Or was it Denmark? )

Your still mixing up the concept that WS is a museum that professionally exhibits historical artifacts and facts.....it's a theme park....ruled by a talking mouse......it's OK with some of us if they have a talking snowman on a ride.....I don't look to a ride to teach myself or my family cultural lessons....I certainly don't expect to learn them from a ride that is shorter than it takes me to get a cup of joe at Starbucks.

 

[BigTxEars]

I responded to your links. Because a Norwegian fan noticed similarities in architecture of some buildings, wardrobe, etc. has about as much relevance as Lord Of The Rings being based on England, and a host of other Old European cultures. Middle Earth still doesn't exist. Neither does Arendelle. Even in that fan post they repeatedly pointed this out. Norway is never mentioned in Frozen. Norway is not the setting. Norway's specific heritage, folklore or culture is not used. Like Middle Earth in Jackson's films, cultures were used to create a specific time and place to create a fictional world. You have to look really deep (or specifically google it to find that fan's website) to remotely find similarities. Rapunzel is there, destroying any chance it was based on Norway, as pointed out in the site. It's been repeated to you over and over that the story and the nation are not connected, but you keep ignoring it. It was thrown together because some Imagineers wanted it to be. There you go.

The links speak for themselves IMO. People can decide for themselves how related Frozen is to Norway.

Like I said it is irrelevant to me at the end of the day, the two are linked in the perception of a majority of WDW guest IMO, for a theme park that is enough to put it there. If enough guests at WDW find it offensive being in Norway then Mickey screwed up and will have to fix it.

 

[Cesar R M]

Have any of you folks done experiments to prove your hate?

It's the same here - one loosely based fantasy ride (I'm sorry, no matter what folks try to say, gods and trolls are fantasy, they are not real) replacing another loosely based fantasy ride.

Considering you are smart, I'm surprised you're insisting in this dumb point again and again.
You cannot compare an american version of an story (example Donald) with something loosely based in a country, and then claim its the same as a film based on culture, superstition and religion of a nation.

they have made perfect analogies regarding how Frozen in Norway is akin as putting Captain America movies as the story and culture of the United States.

 

[misterID]

Keep pushing your opinion as fact, but at the end of the day (i.e. today) there are lots of toons running around WS and toon merchandise for sale in WS, the retail/food ratio in vastly larger than any educational space at WS and Olaf rolling into Norway is not going to change a darn thing in the daily operations of WS to the vast majority of Disney guest.

"are hedged with the fact the setting is a fantasy and doesn't really exist, outside similar physical descriptions in the animated buildings, wardrobe, etc. designs" Yeah what does any of that have to do with the culture or identiny of a country.....

See you in line for the frozen ride

I didn't voice an opinion. Those were facts. Frozen, the story, nor talking snowmen are not located in any Norwegian Folklore. You can see multiple cultural influences in the design of Disney animated films of non existent fantasy settings.

The toons running around EPCOT belong to their host country where they have real, cultural significance (at least they exist in the same culture) and origins. I'm still waiting for that Norwegian talking snowman... And Olaf will change the daily operations of WS. All the 5 year old princesses mixing with all the middle-aged, slobbery boozing is going create many fantastically awkward and inappropriate situations.

And remember, it's "sophistication", not "education."

And I'll wave to you in the Frozen line. I'm staying away from those crowds like the plague as long as I can help it!

 

[Cesar R M]

To be honest, in the end it's either you see WS for what it is, and always has been, or you see it for the fantasy in your mind of what it should be - and neither of us is going to convince the other.

Excellent, how about you follow your own argument? because the only one seeing the fantasy side and twisting the facts and real life.. are you and the other guy insisting how frozen is the best thing ever since sliced bread to the EPCOT park.

Certainly not in a 3 minute European themed ride located in Florida where I am promoted to buy cheap plastic viking horns and a sword when I exit the ride.

Yeah, because that's ALL you can get from the stores! riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.