The Frozen 'Initiative' ...

[lazyboy97o]

cant think in absolutes..im a do it right guy, IP can help but there are lots of other variables in the success of a land...i think there are plenty of example of doing it right even though other properties are popular for example carsland vs Toy Story Land..to me IPs arent important (ie Mystic Manor) but they can only help

You say that, put you're also always at the ready to bring up the numbers for Avatar. The goodwill generated by a property does not just front load awareness, but is projected onto the experience. Today properties are not intended to stand alone, that is why Disney was willing and able to just push Frozen so quickly. This is why box office numbers get routinely mentioned, because they are supposed to be evidence of a willingness to see more. It's the same reason sequels are so often not as good, because there was no natural generation based on story.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would much rather see a new Land built based on pure imagination and have no IP tied to it. Will we ever see that again?

Why should Disney when so many apparent fans of Disney are perfectly into the Six Flags style so long as it is Disney owned properties?

 

[stevehousse]

As in "Hi Yo Silver, Away!", or "Barsoom" ? .......We could have two new E tickets for the $$$ thrown at those two endeavors.

Not just speaking of blockbuster flops. Everything from Mermaid and Aladdin to Tangled and Frozen. They are all very similar. There’s something to be said for smaller stories, without sweeping battles, melodramatic musical numbers, or evil forces trying to take over kingdoms and worlds. Little movies with no real bad guys and light conflict such as the Pooh Movies, Lady and the Tramp and Dumbo. Or movies like Toy Story 1 or Wall-e from Pixar. Or to go outside the Disney Family, films like My Neighbor Totoro or Ponyo from Studio Ghibli. These movies serve a purpose and can be just as interesting to kids. But sadly them seem to be disappearing in favor of repeating the formula of mimicking blockbusters that has proven successful in animated films. And don’t’ get me wrong, the formula has produced great movies. But I miss the smaller films as well.[/QUOTE]

My kids and I love Ponyo! It's a favorite in our house

 

[twebber55]

I would much rather see a new Land built based on pure imagination and have no IP tied to it. Will we ever see that again?

haha great question...not in the Iger, Staggs era but you re right..obviously im been a pro avatar guy but i do think a beastly kingdom idea or mystic point idea is great

 

[sshindel]

I would much rather see a new Land built based on pure imagination and have no IP tied to it. Will we ever see that again?

Short answer: No
Long answer: Nope.

 

[twebber55]

You say that, put you're also always at the ready to bring up the numbers for Avatar. The goodwill generated by a property does not just front load awareness, but is projected onto the experience. Today properties are not intended to stand alone, that is why Disney was willing and able to just push Frozen so quickly. This is why box office numbers get routinely mentioned, because they are supposed to be evidence of a willingness to see more. It's the same reason sequels are so often not as good, because there was no natural generation based on story.

i bring up avatar because its underrated on this board also avatar proves the point i think it can turn into an incredible land even if you didnt like the movie..i like many IPs..im not married to any IPs like some may be
i also said IPs are helpful but the more importantly is the execution and quality of the product....like i said we cant think in absolutes

 

[MichWolv]

Times are changing, look at Cars Land. It did about 1/6 of what Frozen did at the box office and they built an entire land for it within 5 years and it is insanely popular and quite arguably one of the best "Lands" Disney has built in some time. You make a good point about staying power, but if they build the land properly I dont think staying power matters, neither does the IP. They could build "The Notebook" Land and have a Rachel Mcadams look a like for M&G's and a dark ride based on her characters dimentia and people would flock to it if it was themed properly and was immersive. (so ashamed of my knowledge of The Notebook, for a guy, lol)

Perhaps true. Carsland is done extremely well, except for "Luigi's randomly moving tires on an air hockey table", and will probably cause Cars to have more staying power as a brand than it otherwise would have. Perhaps a huge Frozen mountain/castle in MK would ensure Frozen will have the staying power Disney hopes it will, and perhaps the rides would be great even if Frozen-mania died. But I still prefer waiting to make big investments in IP in parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

i bring up avatar because its underrated on this board..i like many IPs..im not married to any IPs like some may be
i also said IPs are helpful but the more importantly is the execution and quality of the product....like i said we cant think in absolutes

For Disney today, right now, they whole basis for inclusion in the theme parks is based on absolutes, dollars generated from box office and merchandise. Story is not considered at that level. The whole point of touting out numbers is that they're considered indisputable, but that is only the case if they have meaning. Cars Land was lucky but the result was Lasseter using up his political capital. Avatar may be similarly lucky because Cameron in a certified pain in the and Rhode wants to keep his job for as long as possible, but that doesn't negate the bigger underlying motivations. What we are seeing with Frozen is how Disney views the theme parks. A few things coming out well should not touted as examples of positive change in the toxic system.

 

[TEAM Dasia]

Well Tokyo Disney Resort Might Debut Frozen this christmas too with a fireworks themed to frozen and an attraction Exclusively for Tokyo DisneyLand OLC will be pushing Frozen in a big way because one part of the 5 billion Dollars expansion plan will be Frozen.I wouldnt be Surprise if they announce it at D23 next year.

 

[wdisney9000]

Short answer: No
Long answer: Nope.

Short answer: No
Long answer : hell to the nah..

 

[twebber55]

For Disney today, right now, they whole basis for inclusion in the theme parks is based on absolutes, dollars generated from box office and merchandise. Story is not considered at that level. The whole point of touting out numbers is that they're considered indisputable, but that is only the case if they have meaning. Cars Land was lucky but the result was Lasseter using up his political capital. Avatar may be similarly lucky because Cameron in a certified pain in the and Rhode wants to keep his job for as long as possible, but that doesn't negate the bigger underlying motivations. What we are seeing with Frozen is how Disney views the theme parks. A few things coming out well should not touted as examples of positive change in the toxic system.

im not disagreeing with you but what you call lucky for Carsland, some might call good execution, high quality work
again i would love to see a Mystic Point or Beastly kingdom but that doesnt mean Avatar or some other IP cant be a great land...i do think if all things are equal Avatar draws more people to DAK than a Beaslty Kingdom

 

[lazyboy97o]

im not disagreeing with you but what you call lucky for Carsland, some might call good execution, high quality work

The luck was in getting the high quality work.

i do think if all things are equal Avatar draws more people to DAK than a Beaslty Kingdom

Then it isn't just about doing it right.

 

[twebber55]

The luck was in getting the high quality work.


Then it isn't just about doing it right.

absolutely.....which goes back to dont think in absolutes...both a good IP and quality work helps but i would put in order DO IT RIGHT before anything else
Springfield in Universal is done well and i enjoy it but could care less about the TV show

 

[wdisney9000]

For Disney today, right now, they whole basis for inclusion in the theme parks is based on absolutes, dollars generated from box office and merchandise. Story is not considered at that level. The whole point of touting out numbers is that they're considered indisputable, but that is only the case if they have meaning. Cars Land was lucky but the result was Lasseter using up his political capital. Avatar may be similarly lucky because Cameron in a certified pain in the and Rhode wants to keep his job for as long as possible, but that doesn't negate the bigger underlying motivations. What we are seeing with Frozen is how Disney views the theme parks. A few things coming out well should not touted as examples of positive change in the toxic system.

What will it take for them to realize that the toxicity has created a system that can not create what made the parks so unique and popular to begin with? Is it a "kick the can down the road" situation or are they laying the foundation for how the parks will be ran for years to come? I truly fear that your analysis is accurate and that creativity and quality are secondary to the monetary value. Will we only get REAL quality and magic by luck, which is only born of circumstance?

 

[Mike S]

I thought so. And you know, I thought they looked more like the actual girls from the movie than the ones in the parks too.

I don't know about that. Elsa looks ok I guess but that girl dressing as Anna looks nothing like her. Looks like a random girl doing cosplay at a convention. The costumes themselves look really good though.

 

[disney4life2008]

I hope you had an awesome visit!

Honestly, this was one of the best disney vacations I have had as an adult. It was very relaxing and while I hate to admit it - FP+ worked exceptionally well for me. I am hoping to do a post trip report but I have not had the time to sit down and actually write it.

 

[wdisney9000]

Honestly, this was one of the best disney vacations I have had as an adult. It was very relaxing and while I hate to admit it - FP+ worked exceptionally well for me. I am hoping to do a post trip report but I have not had the time to sit down and actually write it.

I do not think there is anything wrong in admitting that FP+ works well. Its the price tag that came with it and all of MM+ and knowing that the money could have been used to expand the parks and attractions which would ACTUALLY enhance your vacation and alleviate long lines. I do like MDE and what it offers though. Glad you had a good trip. Thats whats great, who cares if I like it or not, its about having fun while your there and once you arrive at WDW, all the concerns we gripe about on this site kinda disappear (until you see a burned out light bulb!!!) jk

 

[lazyboy97o]

What will it take for them to realize that the toxicity has created a system that can not create what made the parks so unique and popular to begin with? Is it a "kick the can down the road" situation or are they laying the foundation for how the parks will be ran for years to come? I truly fear that your analysis is accurate and that creativity and quality are secondary to the monetary value. Will we only get REAL quality and magic by luck, which is only born of circumstance?

Why should Disney reflect on their own culture when it clearly continues to work so well? Disney's fans do not want creativity. They want ornamented and overly referential to what they already know, not creative, not new, not different. The problem is ultimately that those who should be first to defend the legitimacy of themed entertainment are in fact the first to dismiss it as an inferior medium. And this is not a problem limited to Walt Disney World fans or even just Disney fans. Disneyland Resort fans are probably the worst when it comes to the love of ornament over substance.

 

[marni1971]

Frozen belongs in DHS if only to spread the crowd away from MK.

Mk already drawns 50/60k+ a day.... No need to add more. Other parks (DHS/DAK) need the help.

Frozen belongs in Fanland.

Give DHS and Epcot the specialist help they need.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Honestly, this was one of the best disney vacations I have had as an adult. It was very relaxing and while I hate to admit it - FP+ worked exceptionally well for me. I am hoping to do a post trip report but I have not had the time to sit down and actually write it.

FP+ can work AMAZINGLY well - if you know how to use it. But like FP 1.0, it puts the regular guest at a disadvantage. People like us who keep up know how exactly how to game the system and make it work incredibly well. Joe Schmo from Joisey who's at WDW for the first time and didn't do his homework? Not so much.