Oh god, what have they done to New Orleans Square?

[Figments Friend]

Deinatelyf feels like the club overall has lost its cool low-key feel. It's pretty much on display now. I don't know that parading that venue when most guests can't go there is a smart thing to do. Kinda counterproductive to what is implied by referring to your customers as your "guests". That's just me.

I agree, and it brings to mind Walt's own attitude towards treating every Guest the same.
When you walked under that railroad bridge, it did'nt matter if you were rich or poor, young or old, American or International Guest.
Everyone was the SAME Guest.

Now of course that has changed slightly ( dramatically at the Florida Property in particular ).

Club 33 used to be Walt's personally designed private space to entertain visiting sponsors, celebrities, or people of office.
Over the years that was opened up to others, and now it has become basically just a 'bragging right' for fans who happened to pony up the cash get on the Member list.


I have looked over the more recent photos of the remodel inside and although it is quite swag and looks nice, i will admit to preferring the previous incarnation.
Sure the old Club was 'old school'...but i'm a old school kind of imaginative dragon. I like my stained glass windows to be...well, glass..!
It was cozy. It had warmth...and from a Park fan standpoint, it had a colorful history and Walt's own personal touch.
Now it appears that has been utterly wiped away, which is a little disappointing.

The new Club IS nice...particularly the Jazz Lounge...but i cannot help but reflect upon the price that had to be paid to get it.
Namely, the price being the loss of the Original Club and the Court of Angels.
The big question is - Was it worth that price...?

 

[flynnibus]

I agree, and it brings to mind Walt's own attitude towards treating every Guest the same.
When you walked under that railroad bridge, it did'nt matter if you were rich or poor, young or old, American or International Guest.
Everyone was the SAME Guest.

No - everyone was deserving of being treated like a guest - not that everyone is uniform and there is no greater access. VIP treatment didn't start recently and has always been there as it is still today.

Club 33 used to be Walt's personally designed private space to entertain visiting sponsors, celebrities, or people of office.
Over the years that was opened up to others, and now it has become basically just a 'bragging right' for fans who happened to pony up the cash get on the Member list.

Who can be a member has been the same for decades. And you find members don't brag about it. Mainly because everyone wants a free ride..

Your post comes across as misinformed jealousy

 

[Figments Friend]

No - everyone was deserving of being treated like a guest - not that everyone is uniform and there is no greater access. VIP treatment didn't start recently and has always been there as it is still today.

Who can be a member has been the same for decades. And you find members don't brag about it. Mainly because everyone wants a free ride..

Your post comes across as misinformed jealousy

Not my intention, as i have no need to be 'jealous'.
I shall leave it at that.


Regarding your comment about VIP treatment always being at DL, yes, you are indeed right about that.
My point however was more along the lines of it being seemingly more 'in your face' today then in yesteryears.

The magic of the internet has had a hand in that for sure, making such things much easier to learn about for even the most casual curiosity seeker.
In some respects it may also contribute to some people's opinions that there are more visible 'class divisions' apparent now then before.
It all comes down to one's personal perception of any given aspect.
Of course such 'divisions' have always been there, but back then it at least appeared as though every one who walked through the gates was on 'equal terms'.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

After exploring it a bit, I have to say I by no means hate the changes. I think it was a mistake to screw around with the 1966 architecture if it didn't involve simply restoring it, but then here we are. No going back, we're stuck with it. The interior of the club was the priority. As long as the altered sections don't involve new windows, future refurbs could theoretically be able to improve them aesthetically. But that's the problem: the huge windows everywhere. They certainly ruined that section of Cafe Orleans on the waterfront. How the hell could they ever fix that without tearing down and rebuilding the existing buildings? They'll never do that. These were deliberate design changes for Club 33, I assume for members to view the park. I found it awkward while browsing the shops near the new club entrance and looking up to see a bunch of dudes in suits on that skybridge. I mean, whatever. What's done is done. It's still New Orleans Square. It could have been done better, could have been much worse.

 

[TP2000]

Dateline Disneyland has some new night photos taken of this NOS project. The project is still not done, there are still construction walls and some barricades up in spots, and they still continue to install upper-floor wrought iron railings and paint and props.

But more props have now gone in, street furniture and potted plants have finally returned in most of the area, and the new night shots from this past weekend show what it looks like at night. http://micechat.com/75833-disneyland-adventure-trading-company/

And the old Club 33 entry door on the left.

The balcony next to the new bridge has been propped out and dressed now. It has perfumes on it, because it's directly above Madame Antoinette's Parfumerie so this would be where that shop's proprietress lives. The construction walls and tarps are still directly below (you can spot a corner of them), so the connection to the perfume shop isn't as apparent yet.

Another balcony changed/enlarged for the Club 33 expansion was on the backside of the French Market. This area became a larger fire escape stairwell from the new Club 33 Jazz Club. The balconies there allegedly belong to the voodoo priest of the neighborhood. His balcony now has potions and African masks and a chicken he keeps for religious sacrifi... um, fresh eggs for his morning omelet.

She'll come in handy for something, I'm sure of it!

 

[TP2000]

Big news from the Square, and I just had to share! Okay, maybe not big news, but I'm bored this Tuesday afternoon as I wait for my car to get serviced at the dealership, which is a unique level of hell...

The infamous Off-Center Window of Doom has been altered as of Tuesday morning, July 29th. It has the beginnings of a window box built beneath it, and I noticed new work on the canopy structure that supports the awnings for the Café Orleans patio below. There's also an electrical junction box newly installed in the wall below this new window box, plus some obvious painting going on (two things hard to see in these photos).

The white structure below the window is new, and made of painted wood.

Yo-Ho! (Actually, their lyrics as I took this photo was something about "rum and tobacco". Naughty!)

I'd bet a bottle of rum and a pouch of tobacco that a small wrought iron balcony will be installed here, with hurricane shutters on the sides of the window. A gentle reminder that the New Orleans Square refurbishment is still not done.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

If they can get it to not be off-center, I'll be fine with it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

@TP2000 you keep going on about things not being done and props and paint, but have never explained or illustrated how those things magically adjust size, scale and proportion.

 

[Travel Junkie]

You can dress it up all you want (most if not all assume it wasn’t done.) Off center is still off center and it’s something that wouldn’t fly in the past at WDI/WED.

 

[TP2000]

@TP2000 you keep going on about things not being done and props and paint, but have never explained or illustrated how those things magically adjust size, scale and proportion.

Because I've actually walked through NOS in real life several times the past few weeks, most recently this morning just after the park opened. In real life, these changes aren't things the human eye picks up on or notices at first glance, if ever. I've seen no change in the scale of NOS. If anything, the newly real second floor windows with real things happening behind them where dusty fake shutters bolted over blank walls used to be make the environment seem more legit and more enveloping. The French Quarter in New Orleans, after all, has humans inhabiting the second and third floors, not just the ground floors.

While I can lament the closing off of the Court of Angels as much as the next Disneyland fan, what it comes down to is these changes are just not that big of a deal.

In the photo above, there's a real glass window where two sets of fake shutters bolted over a stucco wall used to be. Now they've added this window box below the new window, and I assume a new fake balcony will be installed where the old fake balcony used to be. It's really no big deal thus far, and I'll wait for the finished product to pass judgement.

The whole thing just seems way overblown, especially after I walked through NOS and saw it all with my own eyes.

The only thing I find truly unfortunate is the plastic panels used instead of glass on the new gates at the Court of Angels. That's just tacky.

 

[flynnibus]

"if we dress it up... we are golden!"

Just like NFL... pretty, but not the correct subject.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Because I've actually walked through NOS in real life several times the past few weeks, most recently this morning just after the park opened. In real life, these changes aren't things the human eye picks up on or notices at first glance, if ever. I've seen no change in the scale of NOS. If anything, the newly real second floor windows with real things happening behind them where dusty fake shutters bolted over blank walls used to be make the environment seem more legit and more enveloping. The French Quarter in New Orleans, after all, has humans inhabiting the second and third floors, not just the ground floors.

While I can lament the closing off of the Court of Angels as much as the next Disneyland fan, what it comes down to is these changes are just not that big of a deal.

In the photo above, there's a real glass window where two sets of fake shutters bolted over a stucco wall used to be. Now they've added this window box below the new window, and I assume a new fake balcony will be installed where the old fake balcony used to be. It's really no big deal thus far, and I'll wait for the finished product to pass judgement.

The whole thing just seems way overblown, especially after I walked through NOS and saw it all with my own eyes.

The only thing I find truly unfortunate is the plastic panels used instead of glass on the new gates at the Court of Angels. That's just tacky.

Real windows and activity could have been accomplished while maintaining the exterior scale and relationships.

 

[TP2000]

You can dress it up all you want (most if not all assume it wasn’t done.) Off center is still off center and it’s something that wouldn’t fly in the past at WDI/WED.

WDI is the project manager who designs and supervises contractors as they build projects in the parks. The parks are WDI's clients; specifically the department that runs Club 33 at Disneyland, who wanted and paid for an expanded and modernized facility for their demanding membership.

Club 33 obviously wanted this big window to look out at Fantasmic!, since Club members are in the 20 year habit of crowding out onto the existing balconies over Café Orleans at showtime to watch Fantasmic! via a very obstructed view that could only be described as "crappy". And WDI will make it work the best it can. In my opinion, now that I've seen it in person, having this real window here looks better and gives the façade more genuine credibility as a real environment than the old fake shutters bolted over a stucco wall ever did.

The clients (the theme parks) have had WDI design and install far more questionable projects than this recent NOS refurbishment for Club 33. And Disneyland's own local management have installed some truly horrendous things into the parks for short or long term stays. Heck, they are seriously considering adding the Christmas star back to the top of the Matterhorn next year if the Miceage Updates are to be believed! Talk about an eye catching anomaly!

This off-center window that the vast majority of Disneyland visitors will never notice, nor care about if they do notice, is not that big of a deal. And in person it's a complete non-event. The pirate band was far more interesting than the unfinished off-center window, trust me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney was better because they were concerned about things the vast majority of visitors would never notice. It's the very same argument for why Walt Disney World has to suck so much at the present.

 

[Travel Junkie]

This off-center window that the vast majority of Disneyland visitors will never notice, nor care about if they do notice, is not that big of a deal.

Ask old school imagineers if that’s how they feel about public spaces. Disneyland would just be another amusement enterprise if they didn't take the time and add in things that most visitors wouldn't notice.

I'm honestly very surprised you would say something like that. I see many of your posts detailing the reasons why DLR is so much better than WDW. Many of those reasons talk about the small details that WDW has either removed from their parks or simply never had. Details that the vast majority of visitors never notice. However they can feel it.

Even if most visitors can't point out what is off, they subconsciously notice something is different or off centered

 

[TP2000]

Disney was better because they were concerned about things the vast majority of visitors would never notice. It's the very same argument for why Walt Disney World has to suck so much at the present.

Got it. And I agree, to an extent. There was a great post in one of Spirit's recent monster threads showing the original stunning 1988 architecture/detailing of the Grand Floridian and the 2013 Red Roof Inn architecture/detailing (or lack thereof) on the new DVC expansion wing. It was clearly a huge yet cheap version of the Grand Floridian they threw together for DVC, and it showed from 150 yards away on the beach at the Poly. Up close it gets even worse; lack of landscaping, detailing, surfaces, materials, etc.

But when I walked around NOS a week ago, and then again this morning, this doesn't seem to be that level of incompetence. I just can't get that hyped up over it. The pictures from Andy Castro, whom I otherwise adore, just don't paint this picture appropriately. These new windows in one back alley and over the Café Orleans patio don't seem like the thing to fall on your sword for. It's just not that big of a deal, and I do think it looks quite nice overall.

Honestly, I'd think those tacky plastic gates at Court of Angels would get more airtime than this off-center window that's not finished yet.

 

[TP2000]

Ask old school imagineers if that’s how they feel about public spaces. Disneyland would just be another amusement enterprise if they didn't take the time and add in things that most visitors wouldn't notice.

I'm honestly very surprised you would say something like that. I see many of your posts detailing the reasons why DLR is so much better than WDW. Many of those reasons talk about the small details that WDW has either removed from their parks or simply never had. Details that the vast majority of visitors never notice. However they can feel it.

Even if most visitors can't point out what is off, they subconsciously notice something is different or off centered

Much like the post above, I get it and agree to an extent.

Perhaps it's because I've lived in Charleston, South Carolina right downtown (north of Broad, but south of Calhoun). NOS looks very similar to the pre-Civil War Charleston neighborhoods. Those are funky buildings with crooked chimneys and leaning balconies and earthquake bolts randomly placed and weird little doors and windows everywhere. A Civil War, a big earthquake and quite a few hurricanes have taken their toll, but it's still a gorgeously eclectic environment.

This off-center window above the Café Orleans patio just doesn't seem to be anything wildly out of the ordinary for 200 year old buildings. There are funky windows and nooks and crannies all over NOS, just as there are in real cities Walt based it on like New Orleans, Charleston, Savannah, etc.

Rarely a right angle, and a half dozen different window styles in just one corner of a façade.

Mismatched windows have been a part of NOS since 1966. Shutters not required.

I juts don't get the uproar over the new windows. When I wander NOS they don't look glaringly wrong to me. Maybe I'm just getting old?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The designers of New Orleans Square was very much cognizant of what Robert Venturi would call the "complexity and contradiction of architecture," the sort of unforeseen, undesirable and less-perfect circumstances and solutions that are the natural result of architecture that is engaging actual, built places and not flattened, cleared and artificial sites with no conception of place. At the same time there was the avoidance of contradiction that is the basis of the "architecture of reassurance." The additions to New Orleans Square are overly contradictory, befitting contemporary modifications to a hundred year old buildings but not befitting hundred year old modifications. The changes to New Orleans Square follow a recent pattern where theme does not dictate form, and instead contemporary forms are veneered with period aesthetics.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You can dress it up all you want (most if not all assume it wasn’t done.) Off center is still off center and it’s something that wouldn’t fly in the past at WDI/WED.

What's really telling is that the window is not off centre, when viewed from inside the club.

Shows you where priorities were.

 

[TP2000]

The façade above the Café Orleans patio continues to evolve. Earlier this week they'd placed a wood window box below the big new window. As of Friday they've now placed window boxes and small pediments below the upper floor windows that are fake.

http://datelinedisneyland.smugmug.com/DisneylandResort/2014/080114/