The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

To clarify, I think Napa Rose is the best restaurant at Disneyland Resort by a wide margin. Seems like there might have been a misunderstanding of my post based on what you wrote about your meal there...

Nope, not at all. Put down your Gelatoni plush and pay attention, dammit!

I was just sort of reinforcing what you said with my experience in May.

As for Club 33 and Lifestylers, I know a large number have been there. However, at its highest, that large number (as I know it) is ~200. Most who are not members only seem to visit once. Based on timestamps of things shared, these visits are occurring over the course of multiple years. For the sake of argument, though, let's say one party of Lifestylers visits per day (I think this is a high number, but I'll concede it for the sake of discussion). That's still a very small minority of all visitors. Even if 5 parties of Lifestylers are there per day, it's still a small number in the grand scheme of things.

I bet you can count on your pinkies how many Lifestylers haven't weaseled their way in. And I am seeing repeaters. Maybe only once or twice a year, but annually. But, yes, maybe it is smaller. I can concede that if you can concede that most have no business being there and are there to add 'street cred' to their flocks that ''I must be important because I can dine at Walt's club!''

Also, just so I'm not lumped into the 'would likely never be admitted to a local country club' crowd, here's a photo of us last time we visited Club 33. We respect its history and always dressed accordingly. So your implication that all Lifestylers are unkempt slobs isn't totally true...

Absolutely stunning. Oh, and the Mrs. sure is pretty too!
BTW, I am thinking this should be my new wallpaper ... or maybe a poster for a wall?

Based on what I've read, many of the old-timer Club 33 members are irate about some of the changes. The question is whether this group is the majority or the vocal minority? If the majority of Club 33 members are corporate accounts or simply affluent members of SoCal society with no strong connection to Disneyland, chances are very high that they aren't chiming in on social media or Disney fan sites one way or the other. They simply don't care enough to express an opinion about the refurbishment, other than to their party members while they are there.

I'm not saying it's definitely the case that the majority of Club 33 members didn't care about the history, just floating it as a possibility. To be abundantly clear, even if that possibility is the actuality, it doesn't make what was done with Club 33 justifiable. Disney could have pleased both those looking for a refreshed, elegant design, and those who are passionate about Disney history.

My guess is that most members of the Club aren't participants in forums like this one. I am going to ask my friend for thoughts later this week. ... But my gut feeling is that DL/TDA/Colglazier did what they wanted and this was happening come hell or high water. I can't help but think that Disney wants a new makeup at the Club.

 

[Mike S]

I enjoy Jurassic Park. Not up to Splash's standards, but it's still an enjoyable ride.

Oh I completely agree that Jurassic Park is still very enjoyable. But after seeing video of Japan's version, I'm spoiled for life

If Universal would just upgrade our animatronics to this level, it would put it much closer to the top. Can anyone answer if it's possible for them to go in and do it?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I've stayed in Disney hotels a few times in the past few years. Nothing like we used to. Usually it's a convenience thing with getting multiple people together coming from multiple starting points. We use DME as a tool, really. I haven't spent a dime on entrance into the 4-parks in almost 3 years. In that time I've been on 6 Disney cruises, a non-Disney cruise, and been to Disneyland. Thru the end of 2015 I have 3 cruises to do. I'm hoping to squeeze a rafting trip in the Grand Canyon in, too. If something has to be sacrificed to do the rafting trip, I'm good with dumping the last Disney cruise. I'm not sure beyond 2015. Think I'm ready to go do some other things for a bit.

Never been to Uni. I know I should. WDW isn't interesting to me now.

I'm impressed that you're putting your money where your mouth is, but you seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Many of the boards on this site are still buzzing with planners, which means the negativity toward WDW hasn't stopped these people from taking their trips. And if that's the case on a website with widespread negative feelings toward WDW, I assume the general public and international visitors are even less phased by concerns expressed here. They might not even know about them (or care)!

As far as WDW is concerned, I'm convinced that things will get worse before they get better. I'm not happy about that (and it makes me glad I allowed my WDW annual pass to lapse), but it just seems obvious to me. Believe it or not, I don't see everything WDW-related with rose-colored glasses, but I can see that WDW has some more time before Uni poses an imminent threat. And that's after visiting the parks for myself.

 

[WDW1974]

So to everyone who agrees that the Universal parks are completely better than WDW - why do so many of you continue giving Disney money in Orlando?

There has to be a disconnect between the anti-WDW sentiments expressed in these threads and the actions people are taking (on a macro scale, anyway), since WDW attendance is still fine and per capita spending is up. That's part of the problem.

That's like telling folks that don't like things there (or with any large corp) that if you don't like things that you should speak with your wallets. It just doesn't work.

I hate Walmart. I never (and I do mean NEVER) shop there. I rip them to anyone and everyone. And they are the top retailer in the world.

Attendance is OK, but they aren't doing as well filling their resorts (see the 8th Wonder). And spending is up because they keep bleeding their guests dry. There is always a breaking point. ... I sense that many fans won't believe that until WDW is a total disaster. The time to right the ship isn't when it is upside down and Shelley Winters has beached herself.

 

[Quinnmac000]

What people?

Hatetofly was one of them.

 

[WDW1974]

@sweetpee_1993 To answer your question, yes that bridge is new. That along with a number of new additions stick out like a sore thumb. Others have mentioned the Walt history disappearing and I completely agree. DL must try and hold onto as much Walt history as it can. Things change and the park must stay current, but great care should be taken when dealing with anything Walt had a direct hand in. I feel DL should designate certain areas off limits for historical preservation. Club 33 and NOS would be at or near the top of the list. For a company that talks endlessly about Walt, they sure show little regard for preserving his actual history. It’s unfortunate he is being reduced to a marketing tool.


I can talk about the off center window, or how the new larger windows totally throw off the forced perspective, or even how art nouveau doesn’t fit NOS (a French style doesn’t mean it should be the French Quarter.) The thing that irks me the most however is in how the new additions make bold statements, in direct contrast to the subdued beauty of the original. Locals and frequent visitors like myself talk about the loss of the COA as a huge blow. The reason was you had to work to find it. You had to discover it. Unless you read online about it beforehand, you probably didn’t see it on your first visit or 2nd. NOS rewarded you with more on each subsequent visit. This is in stark contrast to the bolder look at me I’m so pretty new Club 33. Unfortunately this is indicative of current WDI. Big on flash and low on substance.


I look at 2014 as the year Universal created its greatest achievement to date while Disney cheapened their greatest land in a U.S. park.

Why should Disney keep Walt or his Spirit at DL? They use him to shill timeshare sales (haven't had one person who knew the man, who worked with/for him, ever tell me that was something they thought he'd approve of!) ... isn't that the important thing?

 

[WDW1974]

I've been burned too many times by Wes Anderson. I always regret watching his movies, so I've just given up on him. I'm convinced they're for people that want to appear smart, but aren't.

I will only say I thoroughly enjoyed the film. It was funny and well done. Not incredibly deep, not meant to be. But you did need to pay attention.

 

[WDW1974]

Is there a single AA in Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?

I don't believe so. ... Maybe there will be now?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

That's like telling folks that don't like things there (or with any large corp) that if you don't like things that you should speak with your wallets. It just doesn't work.

I hate Walmart. I never (and I do mean NEVER) shop there. I rip them to anyone and everyone. And they are the top retailer in the world.

Attendance is OK, but they aren't doing as well filling their resorts (see the 8th Wonder). And spending is up because they keep bleeding their guests dry. There is always a breaking point. ... I sense that many fans won't believe that until WDW is a total disaster. The time to right the ship isn't when it is upside down and Shelley Winters has beached herself.

It worked with DCA, WDS, and HKDL. Attendance numbers didn't live up to expectations (which means guests weren't giving the parks their money), and they all received expansions to make them more worthwhile. DCA has gotten there, even though it still has some weak areas. It sounds like HKDL has grown into a decent park as well. WDS is still a work in progress.

And your last bolded point is exactly what I'm saying. WDW is still winning people over (deservedly or undeservedly so), and enough people are paying the inflated prices to the point that WDW's financials look solid. Until things get worse (either through negative PR or declining attendance), I think TDO can continue getting away with what they're doing. That doesn't make me happy, but it is what it is.

 

[Smiddimizer]

Oh I completely agree that Jurassic Park is still very enjoyable. But after seeing video of Japan's version, I'm spoiled for life

If Universal would just upgrade our animatronics to this level, it would put it much closer to the top. Can anyone answer if it's possible for them to go in and do it?

I'm not catching any notable differences here...looks basically the same to me?

On a side note, I always found the River Adventure sort of a missed opportunity. Who thinks of water flume as the type of ride to characterize Jurassic Park?! If Dinosaur at AK were as good as its concept, or the jeep ride ever made it past the drawing board, those would've come closer to the spirit of the movies than a shoot the chute.

I guess they could go that route if/when Universal researches better AA tech. There, @SJN1279 add that to your list!

 

[FigmentJedi]

I'm not catching any notable differences here...looks basically the same to me?

On a side note, I always found the River Adventure sort of a missed opportunity. Who thinks of water flume as the type of ride to characterize Jurassic Park?! If Dinosaur at AK were as good as its concept, or the jeep ride ever made it past the drawing board, those would've come closer to the spirit of the movies than a shoot the chute.

It's actually inspired by a segment from the book that didn't make it to the movie where they're riding a raft down the river trying to escape a tyrannosaur and the river ride itself was shown in the film as one of the various attractions to come down the line after the "Phase 1" opening of the Jeep tour.

Agreed that a Jeep or whatever cool rides that'll show up in Jurassic World would be a good use of the expansion pad over the suspected Kong reboot.

 

[Mike S]

I'm not catching any notable differences here...looks basically the same to me?

On a side note, I always found the River Adventure sort of a missed opportunity. Who thinks of water flume as the type of ride to characterize Jurassic Park?! If Dinosaur at AK were as good as its concept, or the jeep ride ever made it past the drawing board, those would've come closer to the spirit of the movies than a shoot the chute.

I guess they could go that route if/when Universal researches better AA tech. There, @SJN1279 add that to your list!

The raft ride was actually referenced in the book and first movie. I would've also preferred a jeep ride but I like River Adventure just fine. The biggest difference is that the T-Rex has a much higher range of motion compared to ours plus you see its whole body. Here's a video of our version to compare to.

 

[novawildcat18]

I'm not catching any notable differences here...looks basically the same to me?

On a side note, I always found the River Adventure sort of a missed opportunity. Who thinks of water flume as the type of ride to characterize Jurassic Park?! If Dinosaur at AK were as good as its concept, or the jeep ride ever made it past the drawing board, those would've come closer to the spirit of the movies than a shoot the chute.

I guess they could go that route if/when Universal researches better AA tech. There, @SJN1279 add that to your list!

They have the ability for incredible AA's (see Escape From Gringotts queue and Money Exchange store) but that would cost a lot of money to re-do all the JP dinos or to make a whole new ride with AA's.

 

[Mike S]

They have the ability for incredible AA's (see Escape From Gringotts queue and Money Exchange store) but that would cost a lot of money to re-do all the JP dinos or to make a whole new ride with AA's.

I could accept just a general tweaking of the other Dinos if it would cost too much to replace them all but at the same time would love to at least get a new T-Rex. Could be a nice tie in for the supposed expansion and I think one rumor was that JPRA is supposed to get a good refurb at some point.

 

[Longhairbear]

Spirited Musings:

Well, UNI came out with quarterly earnings today, here's Soup & Salad Sandra's take: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-comcast-earnings-20140722,0,4953200.story

Nothing too surprising. These are results PRE-Diagon Alley and they are damn fine for all the folks who think people delayed vacations to wait for Potter 2.0.

A friend brought up an interesting philosophical debate last night: how many WDW fans (or UNI fans) are simply fans of themed entertainment in general versus being BRAND lovers? I think it is a fascinating question because it plays into so many things, including my fave -- mental illness.

How many Disney fans gave two blanks about Marvel before Disney purchased it? How many UNI fans really like the Transformers? How many Disney fans watch Nashville on ABC because it is owned by Mickey? How many UNI fans would rip some design choices at Cabana Bay if anyone but UNI built it? etc etc

Under the Dome Season 2 is really, really, really not very good.

Was in my local Target today and they had slashed the prices on Planes toys (you know it was the only reason I went, right?) Am wondering if that's a sign that Disney overestimated the market or not ... the film still opened to $18 plus million, which isn't bad and it will likely pull families in for quite a while with not many kid-friendly films around.

Finally got around to seeing Grand Budapest Hotel, which was a very enjoyable (but not great) film.

We keep forgetting to watch Dome, because it is that interesting this season. We discovered we had 3 episodes on our DVR, that's not good for ratings when they see how long we waited to actually watch the show. Do you know if they filmed the actual ending before it was picked up for a second season?

 

[BrianLo]

So to everyone who agrees that the Universal parks are completely better than WDW - why do so many of you continue giving Disney money in Orlando?

There has to be a disconnect between the anti-WDW sentiments expressed in these threads and the actions people are taking (on a macro scale, anyway), since WDW attendance is still fine and per capita spending is up. That's part of the problem.

It's because people still need their "Disney fix" no matter how much they gripe, and I can appreciate that to an extent. For many families it's too expensive to get it elsewhere.

I gave HKDL, Disneyland Resort and Universal Orlando Resort my business this year, so I guess I'm at least one skipping out on WDW, but I'm fortunate in that regard.

Universal Orlando is really the only park that I went out of my way to get to. Shanghai Disney is really the only thing on that horizon that I'll go out of my way for (which will cover SDMT that I'm skipping anyways)...

It's too forward looking to honestly know when I'd head back to WDW with vacation time, but I'll go for Avatar at some point, and that's only because Universal Orlando will likely have done enough to convince me back, Animal Kingdom will be the side bonus.

 

[Longhairbear]

My husband and I have been to Club 33 just once, and that was years ago. We were invited by friends who have a membership there. It had to be before 2003, as they were trying to get us to join DVC, which they would get a finders fee if we joined and mentioned them as suggesting we look into DVC. Anyway, we were totally impressed with the exclusivity of it all, the service, the history, but not the food. I served better entrees etc when I waited tables in non chain restaurants back east. I cook, and serve better food in my own home to dinner guests.
As explained to us, our hosts paid through the nose for the member fee, pay an annual fee, and also were expected to dine a minimum number of times to keep their membership current. They would be billed for dinners they never had if they entered the park with their free admission too many times also.
For years there was a waitlist for membership, and last I recall, that list was closed as the list was almost a decade long wait. 1901 was supposed to take the pressure off of that list if it was successful. Not sure I have this all correct, but is what I remember.
I assumed the new makeover was to enlarge the dining space, but not destroy it. I care, not because I could ever afford a membership, I care because of what management is doing in general. I'd love to hear what long time Club 33 members think. We haven't been in contact with our DVC/Club 33 pals since we bumped into them on the Wonder during the California Coast cruise a few years ago.(Using DVC points we don't spend at WDW anymore).
So just how are lifestylers going to get into Club 33, what has changed besides the decor? Has the waitlist been scuttled? What's the new membership requirements, if they have changed, price drop, whatever. It's not making sense to me. Thanks in advance for your insight.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It worked with DCA, WDS, and HKDL. Attendance numbers didn't live up to expectations (which means guests weren't giving the parks their money), and they all received expansions to make them more worthwhile. DCA has gotten there, even though it still has some weak areas. It sounds like HKDL has grown into a decent park as well. WDS is still a work in progress.

DCA's situation is different from the parks at WDW, mainly because of the customers and the resort as a whole.

WDW is a massive tourist destination. It is obvious that even if the regulars stopped going, attendance would still be fairly high because international tourists aren't going to stop visiting the parks. I've yet to visit any of the WDW parks, but I hear about the problems there here on the site, yet each and every park at the resort has an attendance greater than DCA's, even DAK and DHS, which apparently have just a few rides, right? The average person would most likely think DCA's attendance should be higher, given the makeover and the number of things to do in the park. The reality is WDW, as a whole, is very appealing to lots on international tourists, which could explain why the attendance is fairly high at three of the parks and really high at the other one. DCA, on the other hand, is located in Anaheim, California, and sits right across from Disneyland, a park that has had loyal, local customers since 1955. The Disneyland Resort, in no way, compares to Walt Disney World when it comes to the amount of things to do besides theme parks, which is probably why it doesn't appeal as much to international tourists. The DLR's main audience constists of Californians visiting for one or two days, Californian APs, Westerners (those who are from Utah, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, etc.) visiting for a few days, Westerner APs and a few Australians and Japanese folk sprinkled in. Disneyland and California Adventure can't depend on international tourists for their attendance numbers to boost because that audience is nonexistent for them, for the most part. Should the DLR's American and local audience decide to stop going to the parks, they would become ghost towns, which is exactly what happened with DCA (I don't know anyone who liked that park from 2001 to around 2007). The same thing probably can't be said for the WDW parks. If Florida locals and big time fans like you stopped visiting the parks, if wouldn't matter because you are the minority anyway, and it seems Disney has realized this.

I worked at Disneyland for a few months in 2011, and I'm currently working at Universal Studios Hollywood for the summer. The type of guests I see at USH and the type I saw as a CM at Disneyland are like night and day. The guests at Disneyland are like old friends. They know everything about the park, they visit all the time and they're loyal fans. USH is a MAJOR international tourist destination, and it's rare to find a guest that has been visiting the park for years like those at Disneyland. I have come across people from China, Italy, Scotland, Spain, Mexico, Germany, Holland, India, Australia, England and Ireland since I've been at USH this past month and a half. They even asked everyone who was getting hired if they spoke Mandarin. We have studio tours in English, Spanish and Mandarin, and used to have them in German and French. I've had guests come up to me speaking their native tongue, while I just stare at them. I've never experienced anything like this, and I'm guessing this is exactly what WDW is like.

 

[KJC]

So to everyone who agrees that the Universal parks are completely better than WDW - why do so many of you continue giving Disney money in Orlando?

There has to be a disconnect between the anti-WDW sentiments expressed in these threads and the actions people are taking (on a macro scale, anyway), since WDW attendance is still fine and per capita spending is up. That's part of the problem.

We did a Feb 2014 trip, which was originally booked to coincide with when we thought the Mine Train would finally open. That is the last money Disney is getting from us in Orlando for the foreseeable future. Too expensive, the buses are exhausting, and not enough updates or upkeep. Even in February, it was 3 days Disney, 2 Universal. But those 3 Disney days were our first trip to WDW since 2011, and in the same time frame, we've made 12 separate trips to Universal, staying on site each time.

Going back to UNI again for 6 days/5 nights in August.

 

[marni1971]

That's sad. But i visited for three days in June of 2012, my first time ever, and the park seemed amazing to me. Clean, well-maintained, friendly workers, decent food, unique merchandise ... just two years ago.

That sounds like BGT the past few years now funnily enough.

So much they get two days out of us now.