Hurricane Irma

Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Underground utilities dont do well in flooding conditions and when they fail they are very expensive to repair.

Especially in high water table areas not magical they do work well in residential areas with above ground high voltage feeders and developments being served with an above ground transformer and underground distribution to residences. That model works well as the components sensitive to flooding are above ground but the wires themselves are protected from storms
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IIRC, ground in FL contains a high carbonate content, which when combined with water, forms carbonic acid which is corrosive. Also, underground line connectivity is only as good as the above ground lines and transformers.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Ismael Flores said:
Although I agree to a certain degree this kind of reporting is done intentionally and is actually something that the Red Cross and FEMA enjoy.
Seeing buildings being destroyed is one thing but when you add a human face to it and the anguish it invokes people to be more concern and get involved.

This has been proven before and look at the response that Harvey and Irma is getting in regards to Texas and Florida. Meanwhile places like the carribean which got devastated is getting less coverage and donations are lower.

As for the video that was posted, it was made clear that the lady actually was asked before hand if she would speak for the camera and she actually agreed only to set up the reporter on camera with her response
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So the multi-billion dollar, advertiser supported media is exploiting people so viewers make more donations?

Come on...you can't really believe that?

The amount of additional money raised by the few million viewers of each of these newscasts exploiting victims is going to still be less than the amount the advertisers paid just for the commercials shown around them. If CNN, et al were so altruistic, they would be donating those funds and doing the coverage for free.

Not to mention, while it's wonderful and all people want to help - reality check - the people donating in the few days around this aren't going to do a hill of beans good when the damage is this bad. The 100's of billions of dollars it's going to take to fund recovery is coming out of the insurance companies and, mostly, the government.

I'm proud to be an American, but I certainly one of our weaknesses is how we self-soothe in situations like this. Even if every single American - man, woman, child - donated $100, it's still wouldn't even be a tiny fraction of what this is actually going to cost. Yet people feel so good and celebrate because "they did their part"!

Our propensity for self-delusion is one of our greatest failings as a nation.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Nubs70 said:
IIRC, ground in FL contains a high carbonate content, which when combined with water, forms carbonic acid which is corrosive. Also, underground line connectivity is only as good as the above ground lines and transformers.
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Plastic conduit is generally used in outdoor applications as long as insulation not compromised the corrosive soil conditions not generally a problem
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Bolna said:
I think most areas here in Germany have underground power lines. Losing power is such a rare occurrence that people are in big shock when it happens. I remember when I was a kid there were power lines on poles and now and then we would lose power for a couple of hours in thunderstorms. I can't even tell you when I last lost power, it must be over 10 years ago. And while we don't get hurricanes, a typical winter storm blowing in from the North Atlantic brings plenty of damage with it, too. So, from personal experience I would say that the other issues burying brings with it are far outweighed by the increase in reliability! And considering Germany was able to pay for it, there ought to be no reason that the US could not afford it. I am no talking about remote rural areas, but densely populated metropolitan areas.
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Most of Florida would not count as a populated metropolitan area. It is a lot of cheap sprawl that people pretend is either urban or rural.

21stamps said:
Yep. Cities can also vote on it, aesthetics is a big (although less than an outage) factor as well. Example- Boca Raton who has laws on things such as how high a McDonalds M is allowed to be, does not have too many residents who want to look at power lines.
Millions of dollars, but the customers can pay that over time.. the big debate has always been who exactly will pay what portion.

Individual home owners in most areas of SoFla do not have the power to make decisions of that nature.. if they could they would.lol
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Zoning laws are not something new or special, but ex post facto laws are illegal. Any regulation to bury utilities would only impact new construction. Even then, it is not always that simple. Major utilities often follow major roads, and those might be state roads meaning any work would have to now involve FDOT coordination and approval.

21stamps said:
I can't post links right now. But you can look it up.. many areas in SoFla already have it.. and many who weren't built with it have made the conversion. It is costly. Most people are willing to pay more for it. That's why the conversions have been done.

Take the math on the areas who don't have it and subtract the amount that is spent after each hurricane.. in the long run it's better.
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Obviously some people are not willing to pay for the work, otherwise those communities would have paid to make the change.
 
21stamps

21stamps

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Most of Florida would not count as a populated metropolitan area. It is a lot of cheap sprawl that people pretend is either urban or rural.


Zoning laws are not something new or special, but ex post facto laws are illegal. Any regulation to bury utilities would only impact new construction. Even then, it is not always that simple. Major utilities often follow major roads, and those might be state roads meaning any work would have to now involve FDOT coordination and approval.

Obviously some people are not willing to pay for the work otherwise those communities would have paid to make the change.
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As for zoning, I mentioned a city who has extremely strict zoning laws.. some of the most strict in that area. That's one of the reasons people choose to pay an outrageous price to live there.
Of course it involves approval. It's a lengthy process, first from the assessments and inspections, and then from the residents who are agreeing to pay it. Never said otherwise.

2nd paragraph.. that's why I didn't say "all". Most of the time it's attached to your property taxes if it's a conversion.. the community decides if they're willing. Many 'newer' communities already have them, and you're still paying for it in other ways.
 
tcool123

tcool123

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
Looking at how many power outages there were in southern Florida, maybe underground wires weren't the answer.
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Hi local Miami-Dade resident. My entire neighborhood never lost power. Actally it was more like the 2 blocks around me. Our powerlines were the only ones in the immediate area that were underground. It definitely helped us, but luckily there wasn't much flooding. Had there been flooding as would have joined the (at that point) growing 80% without power.

Overall I'm glad Irma wasn't as devasting in SoFla as it was predicted. Im not sure how the house I was riding the storm out would've fared. During Irma water began to enrer the house through a wall conected to a long abandibed home that had caught fire in 2011. I'm hoping the damage cayse by Irma (the ebrire fence knocked down, shingles on the ground, along with portions of the roof finally caving in get the county or whoever owns this place to demolishment of the building. And in case any of you all are interested I posted some pictures of Irma's destruction. Here are the links to the posts. There's about 60, and pictures l include street lights on the floor, entire roads blocked by trees, flooded parking lots, destroyed fences, messed up signs, etc. However it's nothing compared to what happened in the Keys nor in the Carribean. I consider myself and all of SoFla that this was just the damage caused by Irma, and that mostly everyone was safe and sound.
Picture Set 1 :
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-twist-in-time-2-discussion-thread.931146/page-28#post-7892163
Picture Set 2 :
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-twist-in-time-2-discussion-thread.931146/page-28#post-7892171
Picture Set 3 :
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-twist-in-time-2-discussion-thread.931146/page-28#post-7892178
Picture Set 4:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-twist-in-time-2-discussion-thread.931146/page-28#post-7892180
 
M

Martin1000

New Member
Dear all, just heard right now that stores in Orlando still do not have food and even the hotel are emptied. Also petrol station are most of the out of petrol.
How did you experience? Can you confirm or is it much better?
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Martin1000 said:
Dear all, just heard right now that stores in Orlando still do not have food and even the hotel are emptied. Also petrol station are most of the out of petrol.
How did you experience? Can you confirm or is it much better?
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The biggest issue with fuel (petrol for you :) ) is that many stations still do not have power. Without power, they can't pump the fuel they have.
 
cmb5002

cmb5002

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Plastic conduit is generally used in outdoor applications as long as insulation not compromised the corrosive soil conditions not generally a problem
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Yes, but you have 2 types. Schedule 80 PVC with joints that always seem to leak water no matter how good you glue it, and fused HDPE which is usually more expensive to buy and install. I work in DE, another area with a high water table. You make sure you're standing back when they blow the mule tape in because you will get wet. Once the water's there, all it takes is one nick to the insulation for the wire to start arcing.
 

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