Everything said at Final Tribal SHOULD make the cut.
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Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X
- Thread starter RMichael21
- Start date
PUSH
Well-Known Member
That's why you have to prove it outside of TC. All of them, not just the final one. All TCs are really just a formality. The vast majority of the time people already have their minds made up before TC. You have to build connections with everyone throughout the entire game.
And I think the jury really has a good overall picture of what happened throughout the game. Not only are they on the island, seeing many things we don't get to see, but they get filled in from other jury members who join them at Ponderosa. They generally know who was pulling the strings and who was following along.
PUSH
Well-Known Member
They would have to make that a livestream. Regular TCs go as long as they need, and I've heard they can take anywhere from an hour to two hours to complete. There's more of a format for Final Tribal, but I'm guessing it's still a good chunk of time, which would lose the interest of most viewers.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I think Adam had a case.. but he wouldn't have been my pick.. and I certainly don't think he deserved a unanimous vote... or any label as a memorable player.
Final six in terms of deserving the game (IMO)
David
Hannah
Jay
Adam
Bret/Ken
Maybe you reward Ken for the immunity wins.. but I look at comp wins as more 'what you do with it' than simply rewarding you for winning. Same with Jay.. I don't really give him a ton of credit for the wins.. because the only thing that he did with them was survive. Where as people that used a win/or idol to influence the bigger plot.. those are ones I think are more deserving of credit. When you look back at Jay's wins... he basically just went "I don't have to care what happens now.. because its not me who is going home" and let the game play around him.
David gets huge nods for his idol plays, and ability to form up a team and adapt. Same reason I give hannah credit.. it wasn't just 'ensure you aren't the biggest target', but they managed to get people to align with them and make big plays in their favor in ways that really influenced the outcome. They didn't just hold onto a majority and ride out flippers.. they literally came back from the underdog multiple times. To me, its those kinds of play that qualify for 'outwit, outplay, outlast'.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I don't agree.. there are lots of plays and convos at TC that are influential and are very much part of the game play. Look back at when Russell put the idol around his neck.. that wasn't just an idol play, that was a statement that reverb'd through more of the game. Plus other instances where people have hung themselves... or even this season when Taylor tried to out Adam in his final blaze of glory.. The TC is simply another arena for the game, which forces new dynamics.
I think Chris's ridiculous statements at final TC this season show exactly how big headed some people get because they think what you described doesn't let them know everything. And who says Jurors need to be truthful at ponderosa? They can still be fighting for their favorites. That's why I said I would prefer jury to not intermingle.. but its pretty impractical to enforce.
PUSH
Well-Known Member
My final assessment of the order I think the players should have won, which has changed since I last thought about it probably about half an hour ago.
As a viewer:
1. David
2. Adam
3. Jay
4. Hannah
5. Ken
6. Bret
If I was actually there playing the game I think I would have voted like this...
1. Jay
2. David
3. Adam
4. Bret
5. Hannah
6. Ken
I think my previous assessments have been a combination of both of these lists, and opinions really differ on people based on what we see on TV versus spending 39 days with the people.
The great thing about this show is it's a social experiment with people from many different backgrounds approaching the same task in multiple ways. The players make up their own rules. Everyone has their own morals and ethics, everyone has their own criteria for what the game should consist of.
As a viewer:
1. David
2. Adam
3. Jay
4. Hannah
5. Ken
6. Bret
If I was actually there playing the game I think I would have voted like this...
1. Jay
2. David
3. Adam
4. Bret
5. Hannah
6. Ken
I think my previous assessments have been a combination of both of these lists, and opinions really differ on people based on what we see on TV versus spending 39 days with the people.
The great thing about this show is it's a social experiment with people from many different backgrounds approaching the same task in multiple ways. The players make up their own rules. Everyone has their own morals and ethics, everyone has their own criteria for what the game should consist of.
DinoInstitute
Well-Known Member
I agree with you here. I think it was foolish of Chris to try and convince the jury that Adam was responsible for a move that he truly knew no details of aside from what he heard second hand. It's one thing to go for bat for someone Spencer for Tony-esque, but his was just ridiculous.
DinoInstitute
Well-Known Member
Eh, I might as well do mine too.
Who I was rooting for:
1. Jay
2. Bret
3. David
4. Adam
5. Hannah
6. Ken
Who I think deserved it most:
1. David
2. Jay
3. Adam
4. Bret
..
5. Ken
..
..
..
..
6. Hannah
Who I was rooting for:
1. Jay
2. Bret
3. David
4. Adam
5. Hannah
6. Ken
Who I think deserved it most:
1. David
2. Jay
3. Adam
4. Bret
..
5. Ken
..
..
..
..
6. Hannah
flynnibus
Premium Member
And it was after Ken had made the statement about his daughter being his first team right? I about did a double take when Chris said that.. and he's a trial lawyer??? Guess the adage about 'lawyers never ask a question they don't already know the answer to' doesn't apply to his type of law
PUSH
Well-Known Member
I meant going into Tribal people have their minds made up the majority of the time. There's a lot of talk of "live votes" these days, but that's rarely the case. People don't usually switch their votes last minute, barring extreme measures. People react at camp to the outcome of TC, but TC is mostly just a place to make the plan, that was agreed to on the beach, official.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I think the amount of whispering you see at TC in recent seasons disagrees with you on the level of 'locked in' things are at tribal.
PUSH
Well-Known Member
I agree it's shifting more to the "live tribals" people talk about, but I can only think of two real cases over the past two seasons where people actually switched their votes at TC. The one with Hannah this season turned out to have no effect on the actual vote, as Michelle already had Michaela locked in for the Mari vote.
Maybe it's time to have 6 or 7 separate, less luxurious Ponderosas.
This has been a great season, and I've especially enjoyed the spirited discourse in this thread.
Thank you everyone for participating, and for keeping it civil. Clearly we didn't all agree, but nobody ever belittled anyone else.
Now to go see who's losing their ship in News & Rumours.
(Did you hear? Booze at MK. 
)
Thank you everyone for participating, and for keeping it civil. Clearly we didn't all agree, but nobody ever belittled anyone else.
Now to go see who's losing their ship in News & Rumours.
(Did you hear? Booze at MK. )
flynnibus
Premium Member
They can still have a cook, and a cameraman.Putting people into solitary confinement for 3 weeks wouldn't go over so well
Three weeks on a beach with a boat-load of books, someone to cook for me, and nobody bugging me ... oh baby!
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
I'm in.
PUSH
Well-Known Member
On certain seasons it'd be welcome.Putting people into solitary confinement for 3 weeks wouldn't go over so well
Said anyone who spent time with Coach in Tocantins.
GenerationX
Well-Known Member
One of the greatest elements of the show is that there is no rule for how the jury is supposed to vote. You can't objectively compare the finalists, because there's no set yardstick with which to measure them.
The net result is that we've had bizarre combinations of reasons throughout the years: who screwed over the most people, who didn't screw over the most people, who worked the most in camp, who had the most need back home, who had the biggest sob story, who was the best at physically surviving, who was the best leader, who was the best flipper, who had the least odious personality, etc. Shoot, the guy that won the China season won mostly by just repeating "strategy" at Final Tribal Council as his defense/rationale for everything.
Going into the season, you never know how the jury is going to base their decision, how much they've compared notes, and how bitter they're going to be. Your strategy has to account for all possibilities.
The net result is that we've had bizarre combinations of reasons throughout the years: who screwed over the most people, who didn't screw over the most people, who worked the most in camp, who had the most need back home, who had the biggest sob story, who was the best at physically surviving, who was the best leader, who was the best flipper, who had the least odious personality, etc. Shoot, the guy that won the China season won mostly by just repeating "strategy" at Final Tribal Council as his defense/rationale for everything.
Going into the season, you never know how the jury is going to base their decision, how much they've compared notes, and how bitter they're going to be. Your strategy has to account for all possibilities.