A Spirited Perfect Ten

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suburbianj

Active Member
CaptainAmerica said:
Except that WDW doesn't want rapid growth because rapid growth is unsustainable. Universal needed rapid growth because they were on the brink of going down the tubes. Potter provided that spark.

You need to realize that MANY pieces have to happen simultaneously for Walt Disney World to grow. Parks capacity, room inventory, infrastructure, the bus fleet, etc. all need to grow slowly and in sync. Also, WDW is approaching a "natural cap" on growth. They will never ever ever build so much that a family is unable to experience the resort on a typical week-long vacation. Why? Because most families will never take more than a week-long vacation.

Also, get out of here with "totally immersive environment" when these monstrosities exist.

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Totally immersive my backside.
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Ok,I agree on rip ride rockit,the other two I dont.......what does Walt Disney world have that equals what universal did with gringotts and the London waterfront? If you say NFL you need to get your eyes checked wee man
 
Funmeister

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
But then you're back to the same catch-22. More rides (whether they're high capacity or not) will bring more people into Fantasyland and make that tight area even more congested. These numbers are totally made up but just looking at what happened with NFL makes it seem like every 20% increase in capacity will be met with a 25% increase in demand.
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Part of NextGen was supposed to solve this problem. There were supposed to be sensors throughout the park that could track or monitor traffic density throughout the park(s). If they saw a particular part of the park was "overcrowded" then they would/could issue fast passes to attractions in lower attended locations in the park to spread the crowds out. As of today it has never been fully implemented the way it was planned.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Folks on these threads sometimes obsess over attendance but increases to revenue and operating income are what's important.

I can't imagine Kong performing like Transformers & Springfield but I was wrong about the performance of those 2 additions. No reason I can't be wrong again. :)

The 33.7% gain in Universal Theme Parks revenue is a number Disney hasn't seen since Epcot opened (42.1%), although they were in the ballpark when DHS and Typhoon Lagoon both opened in 1989 (27.1%).

This is it though. 2015 should be the last year we see these monster revenue gains from Universal until they open another theme park.

What's really impressive is the $93 million (54.6%) gain in operating cash flow for the quarter, suggesting Diagon Alley could pay for itself this year, an impressive period of maturity for an amusement park investment. Diagon Alley seemed to start off slow but Comcast has to be pleased with the gains over the last 2 quarters.
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Meanwhile.. at Disney....

A Manager had the "amazing" idea : "Guys, I know what else we can cut and increase prices!"
 
M

Mike C

Well-Known Member
It's still a bit amazing to me how posting some good news about Universal causes some Disney fans (I'm a fan as well, but not to such a pathological level) to just lose it. It is not us vs them and these arguments are not fruitful.

I want Disney to put some effort into things too. Some of the upcoming stuff sounds good, but the track record of the last 10 years or so isn't that good (before that it was mostly amazing). WDW is more or less coasting right now, and things like closing down attractions in DHS and Epcot. (Hello pay for commercial movie previews in a former classic attraction). Announced things like Soarin & Toy Story expansions are safe, Avatar may be good despite WDW, and Frozen in Norway seems like a capacity nightmare, though. The other rumored projects coming up sound good, but I think they have a large obstacle ahead in overcoming the "special needs" management currently at WDW. (If you need an example of this, see how PI/Hyperion Warf/Disney Springs was handled, but it is not the only one)

WDW's great and gets the most pie out of the Orlando Market (and still increasing), but going in the wrong direction customer wise. Universal is good, and going in the right direction. That's really it, not hate/love of either.
 
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Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
GLaDOS said:
Another pretty lazy attempt at trolling from you. I expect better. But I understand how the numbers completely destroy all the preopening hate you were throwing at Diagon, so I understand you being thrown for a loop.
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I wonder why people do not put the ignore on this guy.

How many times he has confirmed that he hasnt even touched the Orlando Parks?.
yet he tries to talk like he's an expert.
 
CaptainAmerica

CaptainAmerica

Well-Known Member
Mike C said:
It's still a bit amazing to me how posting some good news about Universal causes some Disney fans (I'm a fan as well, but not to such a pathological level) to just lose it.
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Everyone seems to be acknowledging Universal's success. The biggest disagreement I've seen (or at least that I've participated in) is over what the cause of that success is.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
realdizfan said:
Total gain in attendance at Universal Orlando from 2008-2013: 3.68 million

According to the prevailing notions on this board and similar "doom and gloom" assessments of WDW and the nearly deification of Universal- Uni Orlando is outsmarting, out building and out classing WDW in every single way as of late and there will soon be a point when Universal just plain surpasses WDW altogether. Universal Creative is the best organization in the theme park industry and every attraction is a world beating show stopper, the likes of which DIsney hasn't matched in Orlando for well over a decade.

Total gain in attendance at Walt Disney World from 2008-2013: 2.98 million

Again, according to the prevailing notions here, WDW is mired in one of the world periods that's ever stricken a set of Disney parks. Quality is poor, service is terrible, value is nonexistent and all creativity has been lost to endless penny pinching and money grubbing.

And so the difference between the rising star of Universal and their near perfect execution of their Orlando parks vs. Disney's stupid, bumbling, money grubbing and creativity lacking terrible execution of their Orlando parks amounts to a difference of:

700,000 guests over 6 years.
115,000 guests per year, or the total attendance gained in two typical operating days for the Magic Kingdom

So again, Universal has wholly outclassed WDW in every single way for 6 years, leading to huge attendance gains and a massive windfall in guest spending. Yet, both of Universal's parks COMBINED can't begin to ever hope to pass the Magic Kingdom alone. In fact, it would take years of double digit growth at Universal to equal WDW's least attended park - Hollywood Studios. Of course, Disney is prepping Star Wars at the Studios which will balloon attendance, same for Avatar at Animal Kingdom (and likely Frozen at EPCOT).

To give Universal a swinging chance, I'll set their two parks vs WDW's two least attended (DHS and AK)

Assuming Universal sees a similar ~5% annual growth over the next 6 years (same as their past 6 years)

Also assuming two lesser WDW parks see the same trend over the next 6 years as their past (which isnt realistic at all given Star Wars/Avatar- but I'll throw Uni a bone and assume those aren't open/contributing to attendance by 2019 (so only ~1% annual growth like the past 6 years)

2013 Total Universal Orlando Attendance: 15.2 million
Projected 2019 Attendance @ ~5% annual growth: 20.4 million

2013 DHS/AK Attendance: 20.3 million
Projected 2019 Attendance @ ~1% annual growth: 21.6 million

So if Universal continues to dump a around $1 billion into their parks over the next 6 years and opens a new attraction every 12 months and Disney adds literally nothing and maintains a modest 1% growth at their two smallest parks, Universal still won't surpass them at the lowest levels. But that's not what's happening- both of Disney's weakest offerings are receiving expansions comparable to Harry Potter. Between Avatar and Star Wars, they're in store for AT LEAST as much hype/marketting/attendace gains as Potter did for Universal.

Sorry guys, Disney's "falling apart" and "losing to Universal", yet they continue to reap massive profits, per cap spending is constantly growing, attendance is set to explode resort wide with the strengthening economy and new expansions- and Universal can't being to hope to equal anything Disney does in Orlando despite their meteoric rise for the better part of a decade while Disney has supposedly "mailed it in" during the same time period. It's a good problem for Disney to "suffer" through... ;)
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You're forgetting the gigantic draw that is "Disney".
Disney had more than 100 years to drill the classics, cartoons, characters.. and many more in to children and see them mature and converted into brand devotes.

I dont think Universal had such pull until Harry Potter.

Universal is literally building.
WDW is "riding" the popularity wave and hoping the fans and visitors do not notice that their vacation value might not be "worth" the price.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
GrammieBee said:
Just curious. Why go to see an action movie if the action triggers a migraine? And why watch a Blu Ray or DVD movie with action sequences if you are going to fast forward through the action? It sort of defeats the purpose of and the plot of the movie. It is easy enough to find out what the movie is about before you go, buy, rent, or watch.
This seems like "I want to watch this movie, but I can't watch this movie, so I'll just see part of it." Whatever works for you.
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I suspect this is a person who cannot deal with the 3D process which does give some migraine headaches, not action movies in general.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
suburbianj said:
You really do live in some weird Disney bubble in that tiny minded head of yours....i love Disney,just as much as I do universal....difference being universal is doing what Disney should have started doing on a grander scale a few years ago,improving the parks and adding new rides into a totally immersive environment. When Disney seen the bump that carsland had for them,they should have started spinning the little cogs in their heads a tad faster and realised that they needed to get there finger out there bottoms and get the DHS and AK expansions started pronto....if they had done that,and built at the same speed that universal seems to build there new lands,we could be sitting here waiting for both lands to open fall this year!
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Agree.. and lets be honest.. the most overhyped was the mine train at fantasy land.
I love to joke about the "announcement of an announcement of the coming soon opening" because that thing wasn't ready and they were announcing the announcement of the opening.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Not to mention a curious username for someone who just joined the forums.
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There is an interesting part where there is always someone who joins when there is a big strong debate between Uni vs Univeral. It never fails.

Funmeister said:
Part of NextGen was supposed to solve this problem. There were supposed to be sensors throughout the park that could track or monitor traffic density throughout the park(s). If they saw a particular part of the park was "overcrowded" then they would/could issue fast passes to attractions in lower attended locations in the park to spread the crowds out. As of today it has never been fully implemented the way it was planned.
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Because it crashes anytime it gets crowded lol.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
All of Animal Kingdom (minus Dinoland)
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But that is not recent.

That was under the older management.

Funmeister said:
FACT: The company (Disney) itself was not satisfied with the ride which is why some of the "superb" animatronics, static figures and lighting have been replaced or taken out.

So....water squirting out of the mouths of fish that look like a man's peni s/sex toy is a superior dark ride in your opinion? Note taken.
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Honestly.. for superb animatronics. I think only the Ursula one in that ride could be considered that.

for SuperB, id take the projection ones from the mine train better.
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Mike C said:
It's still a bit amazing to me how posting some good news about Universal causes some Disney fans (I'm a fan as well, but not to such a pathological level) to just lose it.
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Disney Parks & Resorts reported some great financial numbers last quarter too.

It doesn't have to be "us vs. them". WDW and Universal Orlando both can be successful at the same time. :)
 

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