The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[dadddio]

C

I went to high school in Denny, food was simple but tasty, a bit like some of the pupils.

Cannibal!

 

[Mike S]

I believe Spirit said the Rat Ride isn't happening in WS.

I'm starting to think we won't ever get a trackless ride in WDW until there's a major change at TDO where people who actually love and respect the resort are put in charge.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Just came across that way to me....

Yeah, I don't see it. All of the dwarfs in the movie seem to speak English (or don't speak at all) exclusively. It's just a joke about how we don't know of any Spanish speaking dwarfs.

Now if they said something like "Disney apparently found Migrant Worker Dwarf to do the Spanish instructions in the queue", that would be racist. Y'know, actually picking on an established negative stereotype.

It's not racist.

I think in this day and age we are too trigger happy to cry racism when a cultural reference isn't to our liking. No need to bring that stuff up.

It wasn't offensive and I doubt it was intended to be. It just wasn't that funny.

Agreed, definitely not racist. People think referring to an ethnicity, language or religion is somehow degrading.

 

[TP2000]

Agreed, definitely not racist. People think referring to an ethnicity, language or religion is somehow degrading.

Not to mention the modern fascination with using the word "racist" when what people actually mean to say is "prejudiced". But "racist" is more inflammatory and in the 21st century is the immediate point you jump to if someone says something that is prejudiced. Somewhere around the 1990's the more accurate term of prejudice got junked for the more glamorous and scintillating term of racist.

But even using the more accurate and nuanced definition of the root word prejudice, the original comment was not prejudiced. Let alone "racist".

Speaking of prejudice against Scandinavians, of which I am one, I can't believe anyone with any decision-making power at Disney spent more than 3 minutes considering a Frozen overlay for the Matterhorn. That just has to be a bad internet rumor with no substance.

Yeah, there's a 42 inch height requirement that will prevent all the precious snowflake princesses from going on it. Yeah, there's no real opportunity for any sort of show scene on this fast-moving coaster except for maybe the lift hill (which already has a projected blizzard effect).

But most importantly, the Matterhorn is a giant Swiss mountain. From Switzerland. 1,000 miles south of Norway. In Switzerland. Not in Norway.

 

[alphac2005]

Side note--that applies to all of this in some ways.

I've been reading BLUE OCEAN STRATEGY and wow, is Disney ever going
by the book in this case.

The 'outer' portion of the strategy is to create new market space by creating products
that don't compete in the standard way, that don't 'play by the rules' of the established
market space. I'd argue that's MM+. A new way to navigate a theme park--book your
rides in advance being the primary 'consumer benefit'. Also--and we haven't even seen
the start of this, yet--having the parks/CM's/attractions 'talk back' to the guests in delightful/creepy
ways. That sort of thing. No one's done that before.

But--the thing I didn't expect about the book, and the more insidious part of this, is to
carve back on expenses, reduce options and offerings, and channel your customers
into narrower experiences. This is why we've seen all this little stuff being dropped--like,
for example, Push the trash can, and other entertainment offerings. Everything's being
slashed in the name of cutting costs and narrowing offerings. Get rid of all the extras
and focus on just a few, more genericized things. 'Disney Parks Merchandise' would be
another example--pare down the lines, discard the smaller unique things.

This is why they'll only invest the bare minimum in a Frozen overlay to an existing attraction. It fits the strategy, and it will work, no matter what we think of it.

And so they 'invest' in the Blue Ocean, and 'pare back' on all the things that we love.
So--perhaps things aren't 'on hold' because of waiting for MM+, perhaps they're on
hold because that's CORE STRATEGY AT WORK.

In other words, they're doing this all on purpose. The things we don't like. Because, well,
the fan community is just a gnat, really, in the grand scheme of things. In a few years,
the parks will be overrun with folks who think it's amazing that they booked their Space
Mountain ride three months in advance, and there you have it.

And so, in conclusion, grr.

It's so great that you mentioned that piece of work, rather textbook to companies world over. A few months ago, I was brought in to a company as they sought me out to see if I could help them with various issues with their operation and so-forth. I'm talking to the VP for about two hours and I was fixated by the fact that she had the Blue Ocean Strategy book within arms reach.

In our conversation, I knew that all that I was suggesting that needed to be done was going in one ear and out the other. It was an absolute waste of time and it's incredible because this particular entity has massive growth potential, but the executives have now bonded themselves to this losing strategy. I checked back a few months after speaking to them and they haven't made a single change to their efforts and I can see that they continue in the blue ocean. What's scary is when you have small operations that are $10, $20 million a year firms (still big bucks, but all relative) and they lock in on this mindset and end up missing out of so much. This company had issues both internally and externally specifically in their ecommerce operations. They are literally watching money walk out the door on a minute by minute basis, but as the oceans go...

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're an outlier from my general observations… Which is good.

The system has its good points and it's bad points… The good being you can schedule fast passes for things like "a conversation with Mark Hamill"… bad points like the system completely crashing in middle of searching for dining reservations on holiday weekends…

The point I'm trying to make here is that it appears that the main users of the new system are one select little demographic wow the Walt Disney World resort attracts all ages from around the world.

When compared to a lot of the current people on this board, I may very well be an outlier! However, if you take the general public, that are actually supporting the parks, perhaps it is you folks that are the outliers! I mean, even though I certainly do understand the Peter's credibility is not always compatible with what many of us think, you summarily refused to accept that it was possible that the people he talked to about it, are indeed the majority. I don't know anymore then you do, but, I have read a whole lot more about people that find it very useful, then not. So you have to ask yourself, who is kidding themselves and who isn't.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I believe Spirit said the Rat Ride isn't happening in WS.

Spirit doesn't know everything. Ideas are always in motion. What he heard someone say on a boat ride could be fact one day and fiction the next.
Is what it is.
Cars land was happening....until it wasn't. Same with Star Wars.
Until you see something announced and shovels in the ground, it's all just rumors.
Even when something becomes fact, it still takes years and years to get built at Disney.

 

[spacemt354]

This is why WDW cannot have nice things... Pathetic cheap overlays shoehorned into areas they don't belong are now considered major by WDW fan standards. This is why there is no hope for WDW ever getting better. Just continued to be dumbed down to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

It's a cyclic process...

Starts with management that would rather take the cheap way out to save a buck while being oblivious to rising competition...which leads social media propaganda to prop up these cheap projects as "major" additions to "thwart" the competition...which influences fanbois to accept these dumbed down projects and claim nothing is wrong...and if nothing is wrong, management stays in power, keeps to the status quo, and the cycle continues.

Too many support the Disney brand over genuine quality (even if it's from competition) Not saying that people can't have an opinion, but ya gotta be fair. Harry Potter is leagues ahead of any "major addition" we are talking about with Epcot.

 

[5thGenTexan]

I don't know, maybe its the point of some... Much of what I hear on this forum coupled with what I remember does not make me excited to go to WDW. My three big trips were in 1985, 1986, ad 1992 with part of 1 day in 2013.

I don't want to decide if and what I want to eat months in advance. I typically base my meal selections on how I feel at a given point and given time. Don't want to plan it in advance.

I don't want to decide what I want to ride months in advance either.

I don't want to use a smartphone (of which I don't even own) in a park all day long.

I don't think characters belong in attractions at Epcot period. Future World or World Showcase. (Figment excepted).

I don't think thrill rides belong in Epcot. I really do not care if its what keeps the attention of the teens or whatever.

Maybe I should not return to WDW and hold onto my memories of those trips many years ago.


DCL-
I am holding out hope that when new ships are built, they build something in size between the Classic ships and the Dream/Fantasy. Please do no go "megaship".

Someone mentioned the port at New Orleans. Is the Mississippi navigable for ships the size of the Dream/Fantasy? How long does it take from the time the ships enter the river to get to the cruise terminal?

@WDW1974 you mentioned that you had mostly good things to say about DCL. Again, from much of what I read on this forum and my experience with DCL, it seems like DCL and WDW are operated by totally different companies.

 

[Skyway]

But most importantly, the Matterhorn is a giant Swiss mountain. From Switzerland. 1,000 miles south of Norway. In Switzerland. Not in Norway.

Geographical concerns did not stop them from plopping animated fish from the Pacific Ocean (clownfish, blue tangs) into a Caribbean reef at The Seas. About as absurd as putting polar bears in Kilamanjaro Safaris. But they don't care.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Even when something becomes fact, it still takes years and years to get built at Disney.

And even then that doesn't guarantee anything...

 

[tamotu99]

This is what annoys me about WDW, there is virtually nothing original built there, Ratatouille has just been built in France, and will probably be a big success, that doesn't mean it has to be shoe horned into Florida, apart from the fact that it isnt a good fit for World Showcase if you absolutely have to have a cartoon french themed ride there, why not choose something new like Hunchback of Notre Dame, or Aristocats ( i know not new films, but new ride concepts)

Same with CarsLand, its been built and succesful in California, why does that mean it has to go into DHS, why cant they use another IP that has little or nothing in the parks (Star Wars?) and develop around that, yes sure it means you cant just use the same blueprints over and over again, so the design costs are higher, but sirely you would earn it back, but not canibalising other parks attendance figures all to feed Florida, let Florida have its own unique rides anad attractions, that will lead to all parks having increased attendance

 

[Captain Chaos]

It's a cyclic process...

Starts with management that would rather take the cheap way out to save a buck while being oblivious to rising competition...which leads social media propaganda to prop up these cheap projects as "major" additions to "thwart" the competition...which influences fanbois to accept these dumbed down projects and claim nothing is wrong...and if nothing is wrong, management stays in power, keeps to the status quo, and the cycle continues.

Too many support the Disney brand over genuine quality (even if it's from competition) Not saying that people can't have an opinion, but ya gotta be fair. Harry Potter is leagues ahead of any "major addition" we are talking about with Epcot.

Wish I can like this post 1000 times.

Sadly, some WDW fans would probably say @PeterAlt 's mound of monorail dirt is a more magical addition to a dead area than Potter is.

 

[Nemo14]

Geographical concerns did not stop them from plopping animated fish from the Pacific Ocean (clownfish, blue tangs) into a Caribbean reef at The Seas. About as absurd as putting polar bears in Kilamanjaro Safaris. But they don't care.

I had a less-than-stellar weekend experience at CBR a few years ago and wrote a letter to the powers that be about it. There were some serious issues to be addressed but some minor ones as well, among them the misplaced Nemo theme to the rooms. I got the usual phone call from Guest Relations and when I mentioned that Nemo does not take place anywhere near the Caribbean, the lady just laughed and said something to the effect that this is Disney and anything is possible.

 

[truecoat]

Gotcha. I dunno. When I was just there it seemed like a lot of people to only be 1 per car. On our final night we ditched the parks early because it was pretty crazy crowded in DL and the lines at the turnstiles to hop to DCA were obscenely long as well. We opted to throw in the towel and go to bed early. I was pretty bummed considering it was our last night and that's not at all how I envisioned leaving the wonderful west. If there's no real "off" season anymore (even during the week) it shows attendance is driving towards a need for more capacity in the existing parks or another park. There was even an article (perhaps OC Register?) that had someone from Disney saying the curbing of the SoCal APs was out of concern for the guest experience. Also mentioned other APs could be affected as well. I don't think they're just worried about enough parking. Does Disney expand their capacity or try to curb the masses and stick with what they have? I wonder if @WDW1974 might have picked up any hint at what Disney is feeling about their attendance and possible direction in CA.

Additionally, MM in DL was pretty useless even during the week. Wait times were the same or longer than during the day. APs don't get MM unless they're staying on-property. This seriously points to a bigger attendance impact than just local APers. Wouldn't you think?

Miceage put up a story addressing this yesterday.

When Al did the column, he regularly beat the parking drum. Talking about how the CM's had to park at the Angel's stadium some days and ride a bus to the park due to the regular lot being used for guests. There are plans to build a new ramp but it won't come soon enough.

 

[Omnispace]

A Frozen Ride in 2015, and a Soarin redo in 2016....Epcot is set for major additions/upgrades over the next two years.

Unfortunately, that doesn't sound anything like this quote from the Tom Fitzgerald thread...

Disney is poised to begin a major re-Imagineering of Epcot, looking to restore the original intent of the park in both Future World and World Showcase. Tom's extensive experience with WDI should position him well to take on such a project.

...which prompted long lists of blue sky ideas from those posting their hopes there.

 

[TP2000]

Geographical concerns did not stop them from plopping animated fish from the Pacific Ocean (clownfish, blue tangs) into a Caribbean reef at The Seas. About as absurd as putting polar bears in Kilamanjaro Safaris. But they don't care.

Maybe in Florida that works for tourists. Although Walt Disney himself, flush with cash and success, built a Swiss mountain with submarines in a tropical sea right next to it. And then circled it with a monorail, just because he wanted to. Sometimes you just go with it.

But I can guarantee you that the locals in SoCal, who are intensely passionate about their Disneyland, will scream bloody murder if they turn the iconic Matterhorn Bobsleds into a Frozen ride. The Matterhorn is the icon of Disneyland, it's what generations of children have looked for from the back seat as they get close to the Disneyland freeway offramp. Mess with that and you'll stir up a beehive of controversy.

I'm Swedish myself, but I would be happy to call the local Sons of Norway Lodge in Anaheim Hills to get them ready with picket signs.

 

[Nubs70]

In regards to NGE, when people say things like, "it was a much needed infrastructure/I.T. upgrade". They say it as if they knew there was some kind of madness behind the scenes with server admins banging their head against the wall with systems crashing, FP machines going offline, overloaded circuits, rides going down and so on. Was the system really that bad? Were there constant problems that REALLY required an "upgrade" at the cost of whatever they have spent? I dont get it. I never recall on any of my visits seeing or experiencing anything that made me feel like they system was in dire need of being repaired.

I dont see anything that has vastly improved my visits either since NGE has been online. I know there is more to it than FP+ and MB's. What im asking is, what did they "upgrade" that was in such bad shape? Is life better now for the behind scenes guys in the computer rooms? Can they pull up data on how many people rode Space Mtn that day much more quickly now? Whats the soup and nuts behind all the infrastructure aside from the tracking and data collection that was "much needed". People make it sound as if the parks would have crumbled within a year if they hadnt done this.

I work in operations with distributed control systems. Many of these systems date from the late 80's and are becoming antiquated. When your primary OEM equipment supplier is Ebay, it is time to upgrade. However, if your justification is limited to simple ROI, replacement is very difficult to get past the finance department. If your justification is strategic, replacement is a no brainer. This is how I see the back office portion of NGE. It is a needed strategic investment to which the mill stone of MM+ is tied which led to massive scope creep and budgetary excursions.

 

[Omnispace]

Maybe in Florida that works for tourists. Although Walt Disney himself, flush with cash and success, built a Swiss mountain with submarines in a tropical sea right next to it. And then circled it with a monorail, just because he wanted to. Sometimes you just go with it.

Some people just have a good grasp of what's cool.

 

[PhotoDave219]

When compared to a lot of the current people on this board, I may very well be an outlier! However, if you take the general public, that are actually supporting the parks, perhaps it is you folks that are the outliers! I mean, even though I certainly do understand the Peter's credibility is not always compatible with what many of us think, you summarily refused to accept that it was possible that the people he talked to about it, are indeed the majority. I don't know anymore then you do, but, I have read a whole lot more about people that find it very useful, then not. So you have to ask yourself, who is kidding themselves and who isn't.

I refuse to believe that 20-something boys and girls are the majority of guests at the Walt Disney World resort.

(I knew what you meant.....)